Episode 6 - Freedom. Pt 2

Tim 00:00:23 Welcome back guys. Last time we were talking about freedom, but I think we really only covered one aspect of it. That was freedom from the law, right? Ajai 00:00:33 Yep. Mark 00:00:33 Yeah. We talked a little bit on, but I think that's pretty correct there. I think we had a consensus that, that most of all the other freedoms we have, come out of that freedom from the Law. Tim 00:00:46 I agree with that vote. I think we want to talk about tonight then is some of all those other freedoms that come out of it because, you know, understanding all those freedoms really can be important to helping people break free of bondages to certain things or, or slavery to certain things as we called it a lot last time. So what do you think is the main freedom outside of freedom from the law? Ajai 00:01:12 Yeah, so, Tim, I think one of the things, the primary thing, right, as soon as anyone is saved, you know, one of the things that, we need to be delivered is from freedom from guilt, condemnation, and fear of punishment. So that launches us into, the freedom and the Christian life, truly living the Christian life, right. That God intended us to be. If you are under this guilt constantly, right, you cannot really live the abundant life that, God called us to live. Tim 00:01:43 I know some people who constantly are on this treadmill of asking forgiveness from God as things they've done. And then, you know, they go out and they do it again. They come back and they're right back there at guilt feeling guilty, and they’re begging for forgiveness thinking God's turned His back on 'em until they, you know, they've come and clean themselves. The hard, the hardest and saddest part about watching that is you're right, they have no joy in their lives. They're too busy feeling condemned. They're too feeling busy, feeling guilty. They're, they're constantly trying to figure out everything they did wrong so they can confess it and get, you know, be forgiven for it. It's just a sad life to live. Mark 00:02:25 Well a again, I would say why it's so key to realize that we are free from the law and that we've been made the perfect righteousness of God is cuz if we don't own that, if that doesn't become the default setting, the soil that our lives are planted in, we never get to go down the line and think out the ramifications. So many live with guilt and condemnation because they don't understand what it means to not be under the law. Ajai 00:03:00 [Yeah. Yeah.] That is so true. Mark, you know, I just want to, I know in order to, you know, to establish this freedom, right, you know, set us free. I would like to, you know, read a few scriptures. It might take a little bit, but it's important to understand, you know, that, the scripture, you know, says these things, Tim 00:03:20 It's biblical what we're saying. It's not just our opinions. Ajai 00:03:23 [Yeah. Yeah.] So Acts 13:38 to 39, right, That is a first ever, not first ever. That is our only recorded sermon of Paul, right? Paul preaching the gospel. It says, you know, “therefore let it be known to your bretheren through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins and by him, everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses and Romans 4: 1 - 7 says, “what then, shall we say that Abraham our father found according to the flesh. For if Abraham was just justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God for what does a scripture say? Abraham believed God. And it was counted to him for righteousness now, to him that works. The wages is not counted as grace, but as debt, but to him that worketh not, but believe it on him that justifies ungodly his faith is counted for righteousness. Just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God’s righteousness apart from works “blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven and who sins are covered. And blessed is a man to whom the Lord will not imput sin”. And Romans 8:1 says “there is now therefore no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus”. And just a couple of more scriptures. I want to kind of read all these and then summarize Romans 8: 33 to 34, “who shall bring a charge against God select it is God who justifies, who is he, who condemns it is Christ who died. And furthermore is also risen who is even at the right hand of God who makes intersession for us”. And in Colossians 2:13 “and you being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he has made alive together with him having forgiven all your trespasses.” So, the point here is, right, you know, two things when we are saved, right, you know, we are like Mark is saying that, you know, we are justified from all things from which we could not be justified from the law of Moses. And the Bible says, you know, “God imputs righteousness to us blessed is a man”. The chief blessing of justification by faith are being saved is “God imputs righteousness to us”. So we are afraid, right, you know, when we sin, after being saved, you know, we are afraid that God condemns us, right? But the Bible says that the very, the very person whom we are afraid that will condemn us is the one that is justifying us. So that's where Romans, it says, you know, who is it that condemns? It is God that justifies us. And in Colossians it says, right, you know, “we are forgiven of all trespasses”. So even before we were born, God took all our sins and put it on Jesus, and He forgave all of our sins. So that delivers us, right, you know, from the fear of condemnation and the guilt. So, what happens usually is, you know, for a believer, you know, when the sin, if they do not know this truth, that all our sins are forgiven once and for all. Every time we sin, right, you know, we go through this guilt, you know, and what we do is, you know, without understanding that, you know, we are put, we are delivered from the law, like Mark said, right, you know, we put ourselves back under the law. You know, when we sin, you know, we consider ourselves as sinners and then we try to do something to get the forgiveness. But you know, the Bible says, you know, “without the shedding of the blood, there is no forgiveness”. So, no ritual we do can really get us a forgiveness that we are seeking. All we are left with is guilt. And what guilt does is, you know, it actually, you know, whatever sin we are committing, if we remain under guilt, you know, it has a tendency to cause us to repeat the guilt again. So that cycle never stops. So that is why, you know, it is so important to understand that all of our sins are forgiven and God sees us as righteous, and there's no condemnation for us. Tim 00:07:31 Yeah. Amen. I, I really appreciate all that scripture to back it up before you even started saying it. That was great! Mark 00:07:37 Yeah. And, and that kind of proves the point about what you prefaced it with Tim, that it's not about our opinions though, we're going to use the brains and minds and intellect God's given us to put two and two together from what's written in scripture. It's always gonna be based upon scripture. I wanted to read another scripture for you goes along with what Ajai said, and it's in the end of Romans chapter 9, the apostle Paul says this. He says, and he's speaking of Christ, “and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame”. And I just love that because it's like nothing any of us has ever done any failure, any sin, any mistake, God will never shame us for that. He's never gonna bring it up. We're not gonna be embarrassed by it in front of him. The only one that will put us to shame is ourselves, right? We, we guilt. Well, maybe not. There might be other people that are caught up under the law, who might shame us for it too. But we care about what the Lord says, not about what other people say or even what our own inner voices tell us. [Yeah.] Because I think that's a key to that. We need to start to know and believe what God says about us in Christ. [Yeah.] Not what some pastor said about us or some holier than thou, religious Christian said about us, or even about what our own mind minds tell us, you know, believe what Christ said and it'll change our lives. Tim 00:09:15 [Yep.] You know, I'm reminded of something a pastor once told me, he says, if God is big enough, you know, forgives your sins, it's big enough to forgive your sins, why do you keep feeling guilty about them? You're saying then that even though God says you're clean and pure, you're still trying to bring up the fact that you're dirty and you're not. [Yeah.] You are not bigger than God. Mark 00:09:39 [Yeah. Yeah.] Wow. And, and you know what? People sometimes think it's very religious and very pious. Oh, look at me, I'm grieving over my sin and the Old Testament they called it you'd sit in a sack cloth and sprinkle ashes all over yourself. Like somehow that's this holy act. [Yeah.] They're missing the whole point of why Christ died, He died to bring us freedom from that very thing. We're not supposed to glory in our shame and condemnation and wallow in it like a pig in mud. We're meant to be clean and free. Ajai 00:10:15 [Yeah. Yeah.] It also has to do with, you know, some of the false teaching in the church, even in our own life, right, it took a long time before we had this revelation that all of our sins are forgiven. But until then, you know, when we sinned, we try to do something about it. You know, the most prominent, teaching is that, you know, “if you confess your sins He is faithful and just to forgive you of your sins and cleanse you of all and righteousness”, so there is a doctrine made out of that. Right? So many people say that I used to listen to this teaching, you know, it's all well intentions, but again, you know, it's, not scriptural or it is true. But the teaching goes like this - so, you know, you get up in the day and you go through your day, right, and before the night before you hit the bed, right, you confess all your sins. And then, you know, you seek forgiveness and you cannot have any unconfessed sin before you sleep so that, you know, if you, God calls you in your sleep, right, you're ready and you can go to heaven without any un confessed sin. So those kind of doctrines, right, so that puts us in fear. What happens with this is, you know, all the time, because the main problem is that, you know, even though we are born again, right, the Bible clearly says, we did not receive our new and glorified and redeemed body, so the sin still dwells in the flesh. And the way to overcome sin is to utterly depend on the spirit, because the Bible says you know it is a spirit that fights against a flesh, not us fighting as a flesh. So, the only way to overcome this sin in this body is to utterly depend on the Spirit and utterly depend on His grace. But what happens is, you know, as believers, you know, when, we, after we are born again, you know, we invariably end up sinning. In fact, every day we sin, right? So, our life is like, you know, you start in the morning, okay, maybe the first one hour goes fine, and then you invariably do something that is not holy, right, you get angry, and you do whatever you lost and you know, you lie, whatnot, whatever it could be. And then you go in this cycle, right, then now you have to confess your sins, and then you got your forgiveness and then within an hour, you sin again, and then you go through this ritual, it's like a never-ending loop, right. There is no freedom in that. And it becomes so self-centered, and self-focused, you're constantly trying to get something that you already have in Christ. There's no freedom in that lifestyle, and then it's full of fear and misery and guilt, and a, it's, it's a bondage. Mark 00:12:56 Yeah. And it's a great example of how people will take one scripture, misinterpret that scripture, take it outta context, and then build an entire theology that over time people receive and just spread. [Yeah.] And just recently this issue came up and we all did a lot of scriptural research on it. And we're just like, how could this, you know [Yeah.] it's sometimes incredible how this could happen when it's so blatantly taken outta outta context. And that scripture, what was it? 1 John 1, is that where it's found in Ajai 00:13:33 Yeah. 1 John 1:9. Yeah. Mark 00:13:35 It's the only place it's found. And when you study it and look at the context, it's being spoken to people that are unbelievers, and it's true to unbelievers. We need to confess that, yes, we are sinners because it also says, if we say we are without sin, we're make, we make out God to be a liar. And how can we ever come to a savior if we don't believe we need a savior because we're sinners. Yeah. That's who it's clearly too, not to mention that, that one verse flies in the face of hundreds of scriptures throughout the Bible that say just the opposite of that, so how nobody caught, how nobody was and maybe they did and we just don't know, but when that theology was first created, [yeah], falsely, you thought there would've been an outcry [Yeah.] from Christians around the world saying, Hey, what are you doing? And maybe there was, I don't know when that first, when that was first taught. Yeah. just a very good reason why we need to know scripture and why we need to have other people just like Tim and Ajai and I have each other to constantly be talking through scripture and reasoning together and, and, you know, and, and finding the riches that we have in it [Yeah.] not getting, not getting, caught up in every wave knocking us off course. [Yeah.] False teaching. That's out there. Tim 00:15:02 Yeah. This isn't a comedy show, but a Ajai, that's the, what you were talking about earlier about how you go through your day and commit more and more sin reminded me of a prayer. I heard goes something like, “Dear Lord, so far today, I haven't, you know, I haven't broken any of the 10 commandments. I haven't, you know, hurt anybody. I haven't sinned, but I'm gonna get outta bed now.” <laugh>, That's how it feels some days cuz you know, I mean be having been under the law, that's how the day does seem to work. [Yeah.] You get weighed and weighed and weighed down by all this stuff, and then what, by your actions, you bring on all these negative emotions to know that I can behave and act in what I believe is the best manner at the time and trying to walk in the spirit with everything I do, I know that even when I screw up that I'm forgiven and I don't have to be guilty and I don't have to, you know, I don't have to bear down and pull myself up by boot straps and stuff like that. I just have to keep moving forward and go, okay, God, you you've forgiven me. I've forgiven me. Let's move on and keep trying to do our best. I'm gonna take that last part back. I'm just gonna, I'm just going to live in the spirit and keep moving forward. Ajai 00:16:17 <laugh> Mark 00:16:18 Well, that's a good, you were just making a point, you're testing us, Tim, that's all Ajai 00:16:22 <laugh> Mark 00:16:23 But it just shows that's such an innocent little thing he said trying to do my best. How innocuous is that, and yet that's how it, the law is, [Yeah.] it just, it sneaks into our speech, into our thinking. Tim 00:16:39 These are patterns that I've repeated for years. I, I mean that are still hard to, that will crop up without me, if I'm not thinking about it and that's exactly right. It was a saying that I was so used to saying, it's like, oh wait a minute. That that's contradictory now. Mark 00:16:53 Yeah. Right. Tim, you need to try your best to not try to do your best <laugh> but, but rely completely on what Christ has done for us. [Yeah.] Which is much better. Right. Tim 00:17:07 I thought I said this wasn't a comedy podcast. <laugh> yeah. Mark 00:17:11 Where's a rim shot when we need one, Tim? Tim 00:17:13 <laugh> Ajai 00:17:15 Yeah. One other point I want to make is now when we try to get our sins forgiven by what we do, you know, after being saved, what we are doing is we are inadvertently putting ourselves back under the law. You know, when, whenever you try to do something right, whenever you go back to works, you're basically, you know, putting yourself back under the law. But the interesting thing is under the law, if you sin, you know, just by confessing, you cannot get your sins forgiven because the Bible clearly says without the shedding of the blood, you cannot, there's no remission of sins. So, either you have to go back to the sacrifices, right, of goats and bulls and lambs or Christ has to die again to get our sins forgiven so it is very important to understand that, right. So what we have done is, you know, we are putting ourselves back under the law, but at the same time, we are not really doing what the law says, so we have invented our own law, our own method of forgiveness that is neither consistent with the law, nor it is consistent with grace. So now we are saying, okay, if you send you pick this one verse and say, you must confess. If you confess your sins they'll be forgiven, but the law doesn't say that losses, there has to be shedding of the blood. What we are saying is you're inadvertently, inadvertently putting yourself back under the law, by going back to this works system, but at the same time, you're not following the law, so you're basically in a no-man’s land and there's no really hope in this approach except for fear, guilt and condemnation and bondage. So, when we sin, like, you know, in fact when I was talking to one of the pastors, right, so at that time, you know, I was new to all this, right, you know, just learning that all our sins are forgiven past, present and future. And I told him, you know, all our sins are forgiven really, you know, we don't have to, confess or you know, when we sin. Then he said, you know, what do we do when we sin then? So he is so entrenched in that, system, right? When you say, oh God, forgive me. I sinned, you know, that's our natural response, but our response, you know, once we realize this is - when we sin, we say, thank you for the, for the blood that cleanses me continually. Right? Thank you for the forgiveness of sin and thank you Lord this very sin is put on the cross and You apply the blood. That is called applying the shed blood whenever we sin, right, you know, we apply the blood to our conscience and then remove the guilt and then you get back on, right? It's like, you know, you are in a game, you're playing a game or a game of basketball, you fall, right, you trip, what do you do? You just get up and keep playing the game. And for us, you know, when we fall, we just apply the blood and realize that, you know, that particular sin is already forgiven and then you get up and start walking. Mark 00:20:13 We don't need to apply the blood every time we sin because the blood was applied once for all. Right? Ajai 00:20:20 Yeah. Yeah. I meant to say, you know, believing that because of the blood our sins are forgiven, there's nothing I need to do so. Tim 00:20:29 Right. You know? And so in a way though, sometimes it's good for us to tell ourselves that Mark, maybe even we're not confessing to God, but we're saying, okay, I, I acknowledge something happened here, but I know that I, you know, covered, and that's as much about telling myself that if you know, than anything else. Yeah. Cause it's, it's a powerful thing. Mark 00:20:52 Well, I like what Ajai said. One, what do you do when you sin? I thank God. I thank Jesus for what He did for me. That's the perfect response or praise Him or sing a song of worship or just [yeah.] be filled with joy. Ajai 00:21:06 [Yeah.] And the other aspect is, right, you know, this whole idea of not only just, guilt, but the other aspect of, you know, not understanding that our sins are forgiven, forgiven is a fear of punishment. When something bad happens in our life, right, we immediately go back to that, if our kids are sick, oh, maybe I did something, you know, maybe because of my sin, my kid is suffering more, more. And most of the time as parents, right, we are not so worried that, you know, we don't feel that bad you know, if something happens to us, but if something happens to our kids, we immediately default to this. Oh, because of that secret sin I committed, my kid is being punished now. And that kind of, you know, that puts us in such grief and the pain that we experience because of that. Or if we suffer some loss, some accident, anything, you know, okay. Maybe because of the sin, God is punishing me. In fact, I have known, many preachers, right, you know, he actually met with a terrible accident, his wife actually died on the spot and then he got severely injured and in the hospital, his first response was, I don't know what God is punishing me for. So this fear of punishment goes hand in hand with the guilty consciousness you know, that never leaves us if we don't understand that we are forgiven of all our sin. In fact, one John 4:18 says “there is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear” because fear involves punishment. One who fears, he's not made perfect in love. Go ahead, Tim. I think you were going to say something. Tim 00:22:46 Yeah. We were taught for a long time under the law. It's not even just the fear of punishment. When we didn't forgive someone else, then God wouldn't forgive us. When we did something, when we sinned, he turned, he couldn't look at us anymore cuz we weren't righteous. It was just, it was a separation from God, which you know, was, is a big thing. But there, it wasn't even so much a punishment, you know, sickness, illness, death, injury, poverty, this, that, or the other it was just knowing that I can't have a relationship with every time I said I've broken my relationship with God every time I, I don't act properly or I, it was a constant struggle [Yeah.] just to maintain even the best re even a relationship, let alone get [yeah.] rewards and blessings and stuff like that. Mark 00:23:36 You know, just to jump on what you guys just said, it just occurred to me when we feel guilt, shame or condemnation, someone might say, Hey, why don't you get off that Christian's back. If he wants to feel guilty or condemned when he sins, that's his choice. Okay. So he won't walk in the freedom and the joy that if he didn't feel that way, he might how's that, you know, what's the big deal, but it's not just what you're missing out on because Tim made the good point that guilt and shame actually cause us to separate from God. We haven't been separated by the sin, but we separate ourselves because we feel guilty and, and guilt never does one good thing for a Christian. It just causes us to hide from him whether figuratively or literally at least for a time. [Yeah.] Ajai 00:24:30 So the Bible says, right in Hebrew 4 “Let us draw near, right, to the throne of grace for help in time of need’. Right. So if we are feeling guilty and if you don't draw near, God, right, we cut ourself off from the only help that could help us in that situation. So it's so important to understand that, you know, there's nothing that is between us and God and in that very sin, right, instead of running away from God, he should run to God, the throne of grace and to find help [absolutely.] in time off need Tim 00:25:08 Just as my children used to do with me when some, when they were young and something went wrong, it was not, I have to hide from daddy. It was daddy. I, I, something happened to help me and I was there to help them. Yep, sure. God is always there as the, in the capacity of daddy to be there for us. Yeah. Mark 00:25:23 Yeah. The Christian life when boiled down is nothing other than Christ. He is, he is the Christian life, so anything that's gonna cause us to draw back from Him, [Yeah.] cannot be of Him. [Yeah.] You know, so guilt and shame is gonna cause you to draw away from Him, then that's not something He has for you because He wants you to draw close. Ajai 00:25:49 Yeah. I think that also kind of, goes back to the false teaching that says, you know, when you sin, until you confess, right, you don't lose your forgiveness or your salvation, but you lose fellowship with God. So there is this doctrine that keeps people again, you know, when you're sin, until you go through this ritual, your fellowship is cut off. And then you go through this ritual and try to get back in fellowship that also, you know, causes us to, you know, draw back, withdraw from God rather than running to God when we sin. Mark 00:26:21 And I, I have a close friend, who's a pastor and is very much understands the gospel, except for that one point there, which is a very dangerous point that many have succumbed to false teaching, you know. They just haven't put that two and two together to think out the, the ramifications of what you're saying when you say that, unless I confess my sin, I am no longer having the same quality of relationship or communion fellowship with God. And, and I asked him, I said, first of all, I said, and this one, he could not give me an answer to, and this guy has got a, a he's a PhD in, you know, in divinity and, and being a pastor, whatever, the different degrees you are to be a creature. And I said, well, what, we don't know all the sins, how can you confess every sin? That means you you're still in your sin, in your communion is forever broken because we sin every day and don't realize it. What if you don't confess those sins then until that particular sin is confessed, I don't care if it's 20 years from now, if you happen to remember it, does that mean you had no communion with God until that one was confessed? He couldn't answer that because it's not logical is it? Ajai 00:27:45 Yeah. You know, I have read, right. You know, to cover this, they say, yeah, don't worry about it. Do your best, whatever you remember, confess and whatever you don't remember. God's grace covers for that. So Mark 00:27:57 It's like, they're making up new rules as they go [yeah.] to deal with the difficulties, the other rules they created that don't work. Tim 00:28:05 Yeah. Wait a minute. I'm a, I'm a loophole guy, does that mean if I instantly forget all my things, I don't have to go through all this? Ajai 00:28:11 Yeah. Yeah. Mark 00:28:12 Oh. You know, people with, with memory loss are just have Tim 00:28:16 Holy Ajai 00:28:17 They're blessed. Yeah. They're more blessed. I remember. Yeah. Yeah. Mark 00:28:22 Now if I'm drunk at the time, is that immediately I don't have to confess them then. Right. Cause Ajai 00:28:28 Yeah. Tim 00:28:28 Yeah. Cause I was drunk and I couldn't remember. [that's it, man.] Well, and that's the other thing. People are selective. They, they want to, they wanna say, I, I have to, I have to obey certain laws, you know, and certain laws don't apply to me. They want, there are 10 commandments, but there are over 600 rabbinica; laws out there, feasts and, and clothing and eating and where do you draw the line and which laws you're gonna follow and which ones aren't sins anymore and which ones need to be forgiven and which ones don't. Mark 00:28:58 And if you're putting yourself back under the law, like the point you made Tim, shouldn't you be doing animal sacrifices and you know, and keeping the Passover and every other, like you said, holy days. And you know, and some Christians try to do some of that, you know, don't eat meat on Fridays and yeah. This and that, this and that, you know, Ajai 00:29:21 Again, the loop holy area is like for people, you know, if you ask this question, they'll say it's sometimes good to know the answers, you know, they'll give us, right. so, so that we can explain to those who are struggling with that. The answer they give is we are not under the ceremonial law. We are only under the moral law. So they point us back to the 10 commandments and say that, you know, this is the only law you can keep, you need to keep now. Tim 00:29:50 Yeah, I can't do the 10. Mark 00:29:52 And I would say, where do you get that from? Where is it say in the Bible [it doesn’t] that we're longer under ceremonial law? Ajai 00:29:59 Like we said, you know, by misinterpreting the scriptures, you know, we end up in this place of, you know, now making up our own thing, right, our own doctrine, our own, our own laws, which is not consistent with the truth. Mark 00:30:11 It's not just that we're not under the ceremonial law, we're not under any law [that is right]except for the law, the law of the spirit of life found in Tim 00:30:20 Amen. So those are big three that you brought up right off the top. Ajai, how are there any others we want to hit just to highlight the freedoms that we have been gifted by our salvation. Ajai 00:30:32 Yeah. So there are some more freedoms, you know, maybe we can, go into it in our, next podcast, but to state them, we, one of the big one is the freedom from the fear of death. Bible says in Hebrews chapter 2, right “through death, he freed us from the fear of death”. In fact, in this human life, right? Every fear we have is ultimately tied to the fear of death, right? If I get a common cold, I'm not worried. Why? Because I know I'm not going to die from it. Right. And people are all panicky and freaking out over COVID because of the possibility of dying, otherwise it's just like a common cold, right? If I go really fast in a car, you know, my fear is not, oh my God, if I go fast, the wind is going to hit me hard and I feel weird. That's not the reason why I don't go fast. I go fast, bec don't go fast. Because if I meet with an accident, I will die. So the ultimate fear for anyone is a fear of death, right? And, if I'm hungry, you know, the eat, I eat food, not because I can't take hunger or the feeling of hunger is really bad, but, ultimately if I don't eat food long enough, I die. So for everybody, that fear is a fear of death. And, the Bible says, it's so awesome. “Our Lord, Jesus delivered us from the fear of death”. Through death delivered us from the fear of death”. So as believers, right, you know, to be absent from this body is to be present with Christ. And in fact, we will go to a better place, right? And again, that ties to what Mark is saying, you know, not being under the law. Under the law, you know, the wages of sin is death. But if you're not under the law and if you're the righteousness of God in Christ, then there is no fear of death for us. The moment we drop this body, we are alive with Christ in a better place. So that is one of the freedoms we have Mark 00:32:34 More alive than we ever Ajai 00:32:36 We’re more alive. Yeah. Yeah. The other freedom is, I think we probably need to spend a lot of time on this is, freedom from fear of losing salvation. So that is also so important to live a victorious Christian life or live in the freedom that Christ gave us is to be set free from the fear of losing the salvation. Right. Again, there are many, many denominations they actually, you know, cause people to walk straight and the main motivation is that if you don't walk uprightly before God, right, you will lose your salvation. And many a time, they say, you know, you lose your salvation then you have to do X, Y, and Z to get your salvation back. These are some of the fundamentals, right. You know, before we walk our Christian life, you know, we need our heart to be settled in these truths and be set free from all these fears. Tim 00:33:38 I think that, I think I agree with you when you say that the fear of losing our salvation is an entire episode unto itself. Mark 00:33:46 That's what I was gonna say Tim 00:33:47 [Yeah.] And I don't want go too deep into it here, but I wanna backtrack to not having the fear of death. I think you missed probably the most popular verse in the Bible for that one “For God. so loved the world that He gave is only begotten Son. So that whosoever shall believe the Him shall not die, but have everlasting life”. Ajai 00:34:05 Yeah. Tim 00:34:06 Yeah. You know, we say that and we repeat it and you see people with science, but you know, if you really, really contemplate that Ajai 00:34:13 Yeah. Tim 00:34:13 Then, then you'll, it's a big thing. Ajai 00:34:16 Yeah. So I think it's, such a blessing for us. Right? Of course, you know, all of us, even of physical death, we are afraid in the natural, like, you know, most of us, you know, we do not know and we don't long for death, but the reality is that we don't have to be afraid of dying because we are going to be a better place. In fact, before, you know, right after, I came to know the grace of God and understanding that, I'm saved forever, I had to go through a major surgery. And the first thought I had was okay, if I die in this surgery and surgery is not successful, it's okay, I'll go to the Lord and I won't even know because I would be unconscious anyways. So that is a thought I had, like, you know, there was no fear that, oh my God, you know, what's going to happen if I die kind of thing. And the other biggest hope is that, you know, even with the loved ones, right, when they die or leave this world, you know, we have this blessed hope that we are with the Lord and they went to a better place before us. And we will, we will see them, one day again. So that is such a blessing to understand that, you know, we don't have to be afraid of death anymore. Mark 00:35:31 And one thing I want to add to that just on a bit of a, a human note is that, you know, when you look at the apostle Paul, his view of death to even say to die is gain. Ajai 00:35:44 Yeah. Mark 00:35:45 That we're all in different, like how, how much growth we've had in that area and that's the kind of thing that is so deep set in humanity, the fear of death. Even when you already know you're not under the law, I think that's something that the Lord will grow in each of us. [Yeah.] Cause I'm not, I'm not where Paul was. [Yeah.] You know what I'm saying? For many different reasons I think sometimes we're not afraid of dying [Yeah.] but we're afraid of leaving the people we love. I want to be there for my kids and you know, that's yeah. Natural kind of stuff. And I'll just be honest with you. I still have some fear of dying. Ajai 00:36:24 Yeah. Yeah. Tim 00:36:26 I don't fear the result of death. I fear the method. Mark 00:36:28 Yeah. Well, I don't even fear the method, I just fear the separation from tho those that I love. But I also know this, that I'm not where I was five years ago I have much less fear and it's like anything with scripture as we get into a deeper and meditate on it and reflect on it, God gives us more wisdom and revelation. and it takes a while for that to get into our hearts and our lives and our spirits. I can mentally quote you a hundred scriptures on why I shouldn't fear death, but I need a little more transformation through the Spirit in that area and I'm hoping I'm gonna have that before as my time to be swallowed up by life as Paul called Ajai 00:37:14 It. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, mark, before you came, we were talking about it, you know, in the natural, we do fear, you know, dying in the natural, right. You know, none of us want to meet with death and we do everything to stay alive. But at the same time, you know, deep down, we know that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So having that knowledge will, give us a peace, you know, even though in the natural, we are, afraid, but at the same time, in our deep down in our spirits we know that everything is going to be all right and we are going to go to a better place. And having that knowledge itself, even though in the natural, we might be afraid. But having that knowledge and unshakable, awareness or, knowledge of the truth, that to be absent with the, in the body is to be present with Christ, right, you know, that gives us a peace regardless of our feelings. And like anything else. Right. You know, we first, walk by faith and then by sight, right, you know what we, we believe first, and then we experience what we believe. And, in Hebrews chapter 2, it says Hebrew chapter 2, verse 14. “Now, since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity. So that by death, he might destroy him who holds the power of death that is a devil, and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death”. So this is one of the freedoms that Bible says, you know, we have in Christ. So we are free from the fear of death. So first we believe it simply based on God's word. And, the Bible also says, right, all that we talked about it, people are all their life were subject to bondage, mainly because of fear of death. Take over the fear of death and all fears, you know, they just vanish. You know, nobody's working hard and earning money just for the sake of it, right? Because if you don't have money, you don't have food. If you don't have food, you die. So that's a basic concept there. But if we tell people, okay, if you take this pill, you will never die. Right? That's a totally different way of life. Imagine, you know, we'll be spending our life on totally different things, not working eight hours a day to earn our livelihood, but rather doing things that we really enjoy because, you know, there's nothing to fear we will never die. So, and the reality is that our Lord Jesus, through his death, he destroyed the one that has a power of death and set us free from the fear of death, you know, who all their lifetime are subject to bondage because of the fear of death. Mark 00:39:56 That's a great scripture. Tim 00:39:58 Well, I'm gonna wrap up our conversation tonight with this thought and that is this ain't my daddy's religion. Mark 00:40:05 <laugh> Tim 00:40:06 Yeah. My dad, loved Jesus, my mother as well. But the things that they believed did keep them in areas of their lives in bondage, in fear, you know, a not joyful place on occasion. And this is so the ideas that we're expressing even just, just tonight, are so radically different than what we were taught in the churches we were young in growing up in it and this is so obviously the podcast is about freedom tonight, but this is so freeing and so it takes a weight off and kind of moves the dark clouds away. And this freedom is just, just incredible. Any last words, guys? Mark 00:40:45 The gospel is revolutionary. It's meant to be revolutionary. I'm reminded of an old gospel song that was called. Give me that old time religion. <laugh> our song we're singing is get rid of that old time religion. But one thing to also just, I like to mention again, is that the true rev revolutionary gospel of God's grace and found in the cross of Jesus Christ, that is the oldest covenant that was from before the, a creation of this world, God, in his mind decided ahead of time that we would be blameless and holy in His sight in Christ Jesus. So you could besides singing, I don't want that old time religion. You can sing, give me the oldest time religion, which was the true gospel that was before the creation of the world. Ajai 00:41:42 Yeah. So I would like to, say that, you know, most of us, you know, are very zealous and we are very honest in our intentions, right? We want to serve Christ, right, but the Bible says, you know, in order to serve Christ, right. You know, if you're under fear, guilt, and bondage, right we really cannot serve him the acceptable way. Right? So the Bible says in Roman chapter 14 and verse 17 for “the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the holy ghost”. And verse 18 says “for whoever serves Christ in this way, he's pleasing to God and approved by men”. And in fact, I want to read it in a K JV also, if you don't mind <laugh>, because I like the wording there, so it says “for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy the holy ghost for he that in these things serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved of men”. So the service that is acceptable to God is the service that is served in righteousness, peace, enjoying the holy ghost, right? Not in fear and bondage and having this sorrow right, because of our sins. But God expects us to be full of righteousness, peace and joying the holy ghost. And before we serve Christ, right, we first need to get this, get our hearts filled with the joy of the Lord and the righteousness and the peace. And only when we serve God in these three things, we are accepted of God and also approved of men. So we know all of us, you know, our desire is to serve Christ and our desire is to serve one another. But before we can do that, you know, these are the qualifiers, so to speak, we establish our heart in the righteousness, which brings peace and joy in the holy ghost and the Christians, you know, we are always are expected to be full of joy and peace. You're not, we are, God did not call us to be burdened with guilt shame and you know, we are serving Christ more as a, as an obligation, right, not out of the abundance of joy. And our Lord, Jesus said, you know, “I've come to give life and life more abundantly”, right, and to way to live this abundant life is to understand all these gifts that God gave us and establish our heart in these truths. And when we are freed from all these bondages, you know, then we will serve Christ in righteousness, peace and joy in the holy ghost. And that is approved of God. And that is acceptable to God and approved of men. Tim 00:44:27 And with that, we're gonna wrap for this episode. Thanks guys.