Episode 39 - Unveiling Jesus

Tim 00:00:07 Hello, and welcome to the unveiling with your hosts. Ajai, Mark, and Tim three guys discussing the one true gospel. We hope you enjoy today's discussion. Let's dive right in. Hello and welcome to the unveiling with your hosts Ajai, Mark and Tim. This is episode 39 and tonight's topic is unveiling Jesus. Before we get started and wanna welcome Mark back tonight. How are we doing brother? Good to have you here. Mark 00:00:38 Thanks, man. It's great to be back. Always miss you guys. well, I missed this aspect of it. We're always in constant contact through signal Tim 00:00:48 And, and text. Yep. It seems like. Yeah. Today, today was one of those days where I think there were over, over almost 200 messages between the two of them. So, again, todays’ topic is unveiling Jesus. Now I've been through the Bible a bunch of times, and I can tell you I've read about a bunch of veils in the Bible. I, there was the veil of Moses. All the women wore veils the veils everywhere, but I don't specifically remember Jesus wearing a veil. So I think maybe some explanation and maybe some definitions or in order to kick us off. So Mark is the person who wasn't here last week. I defer to you to start first tonight. Mark 00:01:25 Sure. Thanks Tim. So even though Tim just said, he sees veils everywhere in the Bible. <laugh>, there's really one main, well, two places, one in the New Testament, New Covenant, and that's in second Corinthians three and four. Where, where the apostle Paul is hearkening back to Moses. And, he tells the account of Moses coming down from the mountain when he would spend time with God. And when he received the law that he had a glory shining on his face. And yet that, that his face, that glory was fading and he didn't, for whatever reason, they don't tell us if he was ashamed or embarrassed, but he didn't like the people seeing that fading glory. So he put a veil on and the apostle Paul really is the first one to give us a full explanation. What that was about in second Corinthians three. And if I might, I'm gonna read that to you. Just starting about halfway through, he says, we are not like Moses who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away, but their minds were made dull for to this day. The same veil remains when the Old Covenant is read. It has not been removed because only in Christ is it taken away even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away and I'll just stop right there. if anybody knows Second Corinthians three out there, the heading that the Bible editors put is called the greater glory of the New Covenant. And if you read that entire chapter, you'll see that Paul is going to great lengths to show how in every way the New Covenant is greater than the Old Covenant it's glory is greater. So that being said, if the New Covenant is so great, why do so many, including me and Ajai and Tim, I, I know if you’ve, listened to this podcast, all we've all kind of shared our testimony of decades being believers and having a veil that we erected ourself. God never puts a veil between us. In fact, Christ died on the cross to tear that veil down, to take us out from under the law. So if you read second Corinthians three for yourself, you will see that that veil is the law. And by law, we don't mean the law itself. I mean, we're always very careful to communicate that the law itself is good just as the apostle Paul always did. but the problem with the law is it's too good and trying to live by the system of the law by that Old Covenant system, by what we would call performance or works of the law or behavior modification, or trying hard by our own strength to do the right things and not do the wrong things, somewhat counterintuitively, that becomes a veil between us and God, cuz that's not the Christian life. The, the mission, the aim, the goal of the Christian life is not overcoming sin in our life or even trying to do good works. Our one aspiration is to know God better to be in union with Christ and to be led by the holy spirit. That's the freedom that scripture talks about. Ajai 00:05:16 Yeah. You talked about the veil and the veil of the law. And then in fact, you know, we, actually named our, podcast as the unveiling. So it might be fitting to, talk about, you know, what does this unveiling mean and who are we unveiling and how the unveiling happens? Right? So if you, again, go back to what, you are saying just now the scripture says that if you have this veil, you know, the Bible says even to this day in reading of the Old Testament, you have a veil on your face. What that means is, you know, it's happening with a lot of people when they read the Old Testament because of the veil that is on their faces, they are still thinking that they are under the Old Testament. They are not able to realize that, you know, they're not no longer under the Old Testament. And the Bible says that when you turn to Christ, the Veil is removed. So I think one of the things that we are trying to do is, remove this Veil from the faces of the people so that they can see, the Lord Christ and the gospel. Clearly, I want to quickly read a little bit from the next chapter and Paul talking, about the veil. Again, he refers to Veil in a different context is, same meaning, but slightly different context. So he's saying that, and I'm going to read from, verse one till, probably verse six. Therefore, since we have this ministry, we, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in trickery, not distorting the word of God, but by open proclamation of the truth, commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And he goes on to say, and even if the gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing in whose case the God of this world has blinded the mind of unbelieving so that they will not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is image of God for, we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus, the Lord and ourselves as our bond servants on account of Jesus for God who said light shall shine out of darkness is the one who has shown in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of glory of God in the face of Christ. So what he's saying is that, you know, the enemy puts a lot of veils, like it blinds the minds of the people so that they cannot understand the gospel. So here he is talking, about the veil that enemy puts on the minds of the people. And of course the biggest veil that, the enemy uses is the law. But for some people who really don't care for the law or morality, you know, he has other means like some kind of false, beliefs and atheism, God does not exist, all kind of things. But the main thing is enemy has veiled their faces so that they cannot see the gospel. And here is clearly saying, what is the gospel, the gospel, as we preach Christ Jesus, our Lord. So we talked about it several times, you know, the finish work of our Lord, Jesus Christ, the person and the work of our Lord Christ on our behalf is the gospel. And what the enemy does is he puts all kinds of veils on people's faces so that they cannot switch Jesus in his finish work. Tim 00:08:38 If you don't mind me slipping in a little bit of a clarification on what you just said, the Bible use of the term, the God of this world, and after you've got done reading the passage, you only referred to it as the enemy. And I wanna make sure that everyone understands they're one and the same. The God of this world is the devil, the Satan. And he doesn't want us to come to Christ. He doesn't want us to have that freedom. He doesn't want us to have eternal life. He wants to claim us for his own and he'll, he'll go about it through various methods, but like blinding people to the gospel and making people not, not have that curiosity to look or to find or to search and to be lost in their complacency. So I hope you don't mind my, just making sure that everyone understood that those two terms were meaning the same thing. Mark 00:09:25 Sure. That's a great point. Yeah. Ajai 00:09:27 Thank you, Tim. Mark 00:09:28 going back to, our good friend, apostle Paul in second Corinthians three, when he said that every time the Old Covenant is read, a veil goes up and he said, whenever Moses is read, a veil covers their heart. He doesn't mean that Christians aren't allowed to read the Old Testament, but the fact that it's the Old Covenant and Moses it's trying to live by that is what that veil is. and one of my old pastors used to always say, there's nothing wrong with preaching from the Old Covenant Old Testament. It's just that we don't preach the Old Covenant Old Testament. The Old Covenant, the entire Old Testament is just a shadow of the good things to come. And just as Paul said, it's, it's a transitory ministry. It's meant to take us to Christ. Now there's a New Covenant. That's as much better as the old, as it's promises are better. there's just, just so many benefits. And we've talked about this at length in the past, just the benefits of the New Covenant and the cross. There are just too many to really <laugh> enumerate even. Tim 00:10:48 I'm sure we've said this before, but I, I would say that when he says it's okay to preach from the Old Testament, everything in the Old Testament points to one thing, Jesus, the New Covenant, the what's coming in the future, it's all a shadow or a portend of things to come. Mark 00:11:03 Yeah. Or a direct prophecy, you know, that the spirit has revealed to the, Old Testament prophets. And Paul even tells us about that. He, as those prophecies were being revealed to them, God gave them the knowledge that what they were saying was for us, they knew what they were prophesying. I thought that's a very interesting point. He made. Ajai 00:11:26 Yeah. In fact, that is, so true to men, Mark, you know, the whole Bible is about our Lord Jesus Christ. So we can see several examples. In fact, in the Old Testament, several places, it is talking about the Lord Christ, but, he’s kind of hidden right. In a, in a way he's veiled in the Old Testament. Yeah. So, we see several examples, where, you know, our Lord Christ, he is referred in the Old Testament at that time. They probably did not understand, but you know, whereas after the cross and after his resurrection, it is clear, right? Lord, Jesus Christ is not veiled anymore. He is clear in the open, especially when we look at the cross, when we believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ, we are not veiled anymore, but sadly what's happening is even after the Lord Christ has come, the Bible says, you know, the law was only a foreshadow of good things to come and the substance is Christ. Ajai 00:12:23 And even after the substance is here, people are still looking at shadows. They're still, for some reason, going back to, the Old Covenant and acting as if we are still under the Old Covenant, totally ignoring our Lord Jesus Christ. You know, that is where I think, we are, our ministries about right. We are trying to, bring people to the understanding that we are not under the law anymore. So ultimately what we are trying to do is anything that comes in the way of seeing the finish work of Lord Jesus Christ, that is a veil. And we are trying to, basically unveil, people of, of anything that comes in the way of, seeing Christ and him crucified Mark 00:13:12 Ajai. You know, Tim, we, everybody listeners, we have a thing on, we use a lot on the podcast. It's a term called hair split. And I think we even need to get a hair split alarm, sorry, Ajai. But you said you were talking about the people that were focusing on the law and totally ignoring the Lord. Jesus. Well, I'd have to split a hair that I wish that, you know, it was that black and white because that's not the way it happens. You're not, you're gonna find very few preachers. It's, it's what they're doing is they're mixing, they're teaching both and that's the veil, that's the oil and water they're trying to push together. I wish, you know, I wish it was that easy, cuz everybody'd get up and walk out. And I think a lot of the Christians out there are probably saying to themselves now, Hey Mark, Ajai, Tim, you know what? I love the Lord. I'm a Christian. I know salvation is completely Christ by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone. And that's not where we're what we're talking about here. We're talking about is after we become Christians, as Paul put it in Galatians, having started by the spirit. Are you now trying to finish by the flesh? So what generally happens is we all come to Christ and realize we can't do the law well enough to earn our own salvation. That's why we came cuz we knew we were in desperate need, but the minute we come into the kingdom, then we've got everybody telling us, our pastors, our small group leaders, books and mini, television and radio ministry programs telling us, now we need to get to work. Now that we're Christians, we have no excuse for our sin. You better get to work and pull up those bootstraps. And Ajai, you said something to me last week about, that commonality of Christ. But then what the difference is between somebody who is relying on the gospel, the message of God's grace and someone who is relying on adding their own abilities to keep the law. What was that? You said? Ajai 00:15:27 Yeah. So Mark, I think in general, when we talk about evangelical Christians, right? Nobody says that we are saved by works. Everybody says that, you know, when it comes to salvation, it is by grace through faith in Christ alone. So there's no question about that. Right? So that's why I think when we talk about, grace alone, people sometimes get surprised. You know, why are you telling me this? I already know about it. Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone and in Christ alone. But what we notice is like you said, most of the evangelicals, they think that salvation is by grace alone. But when it comes to, living the Christian life, commonly referred to as sanctification or growing in Christ, or Christian growth, whatever you want to call it. Now they think, you know, it's up to us. So that's where we are they're basically taking us right back under the law. But the problem with the law is law is not just like a, okay, nice to have kind of features. It's not that you, the moment you go back under the law, if you don't keep the law, then you will fall back under condemnation. So that's what is happening. You know what, many of the believers new believers are told is, okay, it's good. Right? You know, you have come to know Christ now and you have, okay, very good. You know, you used to live like that and that's well and good. You left all that and you came to Christianity, but now you have to do this, this and this. And if you don't do this right, you will not get blessing. So they're putting them right back under the condemnation of the law. Or they also come up with some other things like, you know, Hey, you know, if you don't do this, you will lose. for example, if you don't tithe, you will not have financial blessings. Right? And if you have some secret sin, your kids will suffer. So there is no, limit to all the kind of condemnation that are put under. But the problem is, you know, the moment you go back under the law, you are on your own. You, the spirit does not work under the law or the Bible clearly says, you know, we are delivered from the law so that, we can be married to our Lord Jesus Christ. And the Bible also says, if you're led by the spirit, you are no longer under the law. In other words, if you go back under the law, right? You're almost saying that, you know, you're again committing spiritual adultery with the, our law, Jesus Christ. Because before you were under the law, you died to the law so that you can be married to Christ. But after being married to Christ, if you go back to the law you’re basically committing spiritual adultery with our Lord, Jesus Christ. And then the Bible also says, if you are led by the spirit, you cannot, you are not under the law. In other words, if you go back under the law, you cannot be led by the spirit. So what they're doing is they're taking new believers and telling, putting them right back under the law and stripping them of the help of the holy spirit. And they're on their own. If they're on their own, they're, bound to fall, right? They cannot keep the law. And then they'll go back under the condemnation. And the old cycle starts again, even though they're believers, they will go through the Roman seven experience that we talked about last time. Tim 00:18:38 This is where the concept of what we've talked about before fruit inspectors come from, they come into a church and they judge a church by its quote fruit. What that really is saying is they're measuring you against the law. Can you, is your congregation, are you personally following the law? Cuz that's, you know, that's how we measure whether you're really a true Christian or how good you're doing and how good a Christian you are. It's pure Judgementalism that doesn't take grace into account. We've we've had a, we had an episode a while back on monergism versus synergism, which is this kind of explained in much more detail, if you want to get into that, go back to that. But, yeah, so this is a way that people keep score so to speak and why would they want to keep score? Cause they want, they want to think that, oh, well I'm better than these people. And somehow because they can attain what they think is a certain goal. They're gonna be saved more or better or get better from God. And it's all just completely and blatantly untrue. Mark 00:19:44 Great point, Ajai, you said something that was a really beautiful picture. And you said that God has taken us out from under the law so that we could be married to Christ. And the thing that popped in my head is, I mean, the Bible talks a lot in the New Testament that the church believers are the bride of Christ. Now that's another place we all, probably even more familiarly know the veil as the bride comes down that aisle, she's got a veil down and I can still remember my wedding to my wife, Melissa. She came down that aisle with the veil. And when she got up to the front, I was instructed by the pastor. Now lift her veil up. And as I did that, I just looked full into her smiling face. And it was one of the most vivid moments I could remember removing that veil. That's the life we're meant for. We're supposed to see the, what is it? The light of the glory of the gospel displayed in Christ's face. Imagine if I would've, if I would've came up, when she came up to the front to be married to me, she left the veil down. Then we went on, our honeymoon, wore the veil the whole time. Then we came and started our married life had kids and she's wearing the veil the whole time. <laugh> that wouldn't make sense. Would it? No. We're meant to look directly into the face of Christ and contemplate his glory and it's that glory and that contemplation that by the spirit transforms us into his image. So I just thought that was great though. That marriage illustration, Ajai. Ajai 00:21:26 Yeah, though. I would say as I'm growing old, it might be better for Arima to go back to wearing the veil again. <laugh> all, Mark 00:21:35 Enough of the false, enough of the false humility there. You handsome devil. <laugh> Tim 00:21:41 There are days. I believe my wife would not mind me wearing a veil so long as it came with a muzzle too. Mark 00:21:46 This is what's called a bunny trail to so Ajai 00:21:49 <laugh> yeah. That is a beautiful illustration Mark. In fact, yeah, that is so true. Right? As a bride is walking and if you have a veil, you know, that's what the law is, right? If you have the veil, you cannot see your bride room clearly. And and the Bible also talks about one of your, favorite verse and it directly fits into, the Christian life. Right? Many people think that if you go from one of the reasons why many of the preachers with good intentions, they put believers under the law is because somehow they think the law will enable them to act straight, right? Keep them on the tracks. And they're afraid if you tell believers that, you are no longer under the law, they will go and sing like crazy, right? so that's why they're afraid. But you know, the Bible clearly says that beholding the law, Jesus Christ, as in a mirror, we are changed into the same image from glory to glory. So in order for us to actually start acting like our Lord Jesus Christ, the only thing we need to do is look at him, behold him. And if we have the veil, there's no way we can behold him. Right? So that's very important. Like unless the Veil is removed, we really cannot manifest the life of Christ in this world. So they don't have to worry that if the veil is removed, somehow we will act like, the children of devil Mark 00:23:18 Tim, you brought up, the monergism versus synergism discussion we had some weeks back. And just to give a quick definition, monergism means one person working, doing the work synergism means two people working together. And the debate has been that most Christians agree that salvation is monistic it's all God, all Jesus. In other words, God lifts the veil up between us and Christ. And we see him and we come to him by the spirit through faith. But then the people on the synergist side of the debate say, but from then on, you need to work along with God. You know, they're the ones that are mixing that Old Covenant, and, and really for all intents and purposes, pulling that veil down and, and Ajai, you, you said it. And just the thing we wanna really say is we've come to this, these conclusions from years of Bible study of scripture, it's not just us wishful thinking or coming up with our own stuff and I'm gonna, I'm gonna let the apostle Paul give it to us here. As clearly as you can put it is that, that everything is Christ from salvation to sanctification, which is just a fancy way of saying living as a Christian. Now the Galatians were falling to the same stuff that people still fall to now. And that's mixing the law back in re-erecting that veil. He says to the Galatians, I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel, which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. And then he goes on, goes on to says, say that I don't care if an angel from heaven came down. I don't care if I, Paul myself started to preach a gospel, let them be cursed because the gospel is, he's already said, living in the grace of Christ. And there are many places where we are told that the gospel is the message of God's grace, which he confirmed with signs and wonders that Paul said his one goal in life was testify, to, to God's grace. Well, right here in that little thing where he says, we are called to live in the grace of Christ, that includes coming to him in salvation and then living throughout our life, completely relying on his grace, which just to define one more time is the unmarried, unearned, undeserved favor of God. We don't work along with God to earn that or earn greater blessing or fill in the blank more, you know, more health in your life or money. It's not by works. If it was, we'd never be saved in the first place. Tim 00:26:33 So bringing this back all around to the title, which is unveiling Jesus, would you say and feel free to disagree with me, but would you say that the actual unveiling Jesus is really divesting ourself of the law so that it doesn't become come between us and him? It's, it's removing that veil of the law so that we can have a pure relational interaction with the holy spirit and with Jesus Christ. Mark 00:26:59 Perfect. In my opinion. Ajai 00:27:01 Yeah. I think that is a big part of it Tim. Most of us, whether believers, legalistic believers, or any religion, they're eventually, under some form of works, they think, you know, you have to do this X, Y, and Z to know God, even though they don't have a true God, they still think, they have to do some form of, law works of the law to get to know the true God. So definitely I think law is a big part of it, but I think there are some other, other things that are nowadays especially developing right. The new age moment. I don't know if they have any law or anything like that, but it almost sounds like Christianity almost sounds like, walking in the spirit, but it's not. So I think it gets very confusing. So as Paul mentioned, right, if the gospel we veiled it is, veiled to those who are perishing. So I would say in a bigger form, I think, it is unbelief. So no matter what, the reason, if not believing in the Lord, Jesus Christ and his finished work, then you're veiled, right? I think, the veil here is there is something coming in the way that is not, that is preventing people from seeing the finish work. So that's what it comes down to. Unbelievers. they all together, don't see Christ and believers. They see Christ only for salvation beyond that, they don't see that the work is finished and even their Christian life is by Christ living in him and even their Christian life is based off of the finished work of Christ. They still think they have to do something. So I would say for predominantly it's the law, but there are other things, also some kind of confusing, confusing, beliefs that many people have that also could be available. Mark 00:28:52 You know, Ajai, you talked about this a couple of weeks ago, about the, the fact that, Paul told us, she'll probably remember the scripture that it says the law was nailed to the cross would remember the scripture on that. Yep. Ajai 00:29:08 It was, I think it's in, Colossian chapter two. Mark 00:29:11 Can you read that for us? Ajai 00:29:13 Yeah. Colossian chapter two from verse 13. And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and uncircumcision of the flesh, he made you alive together with him having forgiven all your wrongdoings, having canceled the certificate of debt, consisting of decrease against it, which was hostile to us. And it, he has taken it out of the way. Having nailed it to the cross. When he had disowned the rulers and authorities, he made a public display of him, of them, having triumphed over them through him. Mark 00:29:46 So it's saying that the decrees that were against us, that's just another way of saying the law in the NIV. It says the legal indebtedness legal means of the law that's been nailed to the cross. And it says that when it did that, it took away the weapon of the devil, which is how he attacks us the law. So in other words, that veil was nailed to the cross and that veil is the, as it was the God of this world, is that way, the way put it, Paul put it that's the only weapon the devil has against us is to put that veil between us and God. And as I mentioned earlier, it's very rarely so black and white cuz if it was too obvious, we would see it and we'd run from it. But it's, it can be much more subtle than that. And a funny thing happened after about 25 years of being a Christian. When I, when I gained revelation and understanding, well, let's say at beginning of a journey of coming into greater understanding of the gospel and my wife did as well, we just became great, oh, what's the word sounding boards for each other because the law in us can become a very subtle thing that even though we're not thinking about it, it changes the way we speak the way we think, the way we judge other people. So it becomes this thing where we're trying to strain it out. And that's what my hope is because I wanna get the last remnants of that veil just completely ripped out of the way so that I can see Christ clearly through the gospel of God's grace and not my own ability to keep the law to do good works or to stay away from sin. But, but to see Christ clearly and the light of a glory of the gospel in his face. Tim 00:31:47 And it's, it creeps up in all of us, even today, even with the full revelation and knowledge of grace, I'll catch myself saying things like I'm trying to, and it's not, I can't, these are things I can't do of myself. For instance, at one point in my life, after 12 years in the military, I had to learn how to quit cursing so much. So I would always tell people I'm trying not to curse well, if I'd set my eyes upon Jesus, that would've been lifted for me a lot faster, than trying to do it under my own steam. Ajai 00:32:18 Yeah. Mark, you said, something really beautiful. You said, the veil is nailed to the cross, right? So in fact, you know, that's where the Bible exactly says in, first, second Corinthians chapter three and verse 16. But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. So when we see that the veil is nailed to the cross, you know, when you look at the Lord, you know, that's when the veil drops from our face and then we clearly see the Lord Mark 00:32:48 And, and with the veil gone, if our veils are completely gone, one litmus test that I've always thought is, is, you know, a very good one is how much do I walk around under self condemnation and guilt because God does not condemn me. So Romans 8:1 clearly says, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Jesus, because through Christ Jesus, the law of the spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death for what the law was powerless to do, because it was weakened by the flesh. God did by sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us who do not live according to the flesh. But according to the spirit, I love the fact that the PA Paul says the requirement of that law, that we're still trying to add to the gospel from time to time, he's saying that's already fully been met in you. There's nothing more for you to add to that. You're not gonna meet it more fully than it already is, has been done on your half behalf in Christ. So I, I would just use that to make the point that we should not be feeling, feeling condemned when we fall, instead of like mourning over our sin, walking around in sat, cloth and ashes with our heads hung low, just waiting two or three days to get back on track. Instead we should rejoice in the cross and what Christ is done for us, that we are no longer under the law, but under the under grace and where there is no law, there is no transgression Tim 00:34:43 In amen. And that is such a freeing thing for every Christian is I can live a life free of guilt, free of shame, free of condemnation free from even from myself. And we let's admit it. Most people are the hardest on themselves of anybody. They know, cuz we know who we are. We know what we think. We know what we feel. And there are times that we, we are shamed by some of that, but we don't have to be, cuz Jesus knows who we are. He came to us where we were, he picked us up, cleaned us off, took the veil of the law out from our, you know, blocking, you know, from blocking our sight. And if we can just rest in him, we get all of the benefits, and none of the bad feelings or the bad, you know, consequences. So that's wonderful, but we are getting close to the end here. So I'm gonna ask you guys to do some wrap up, if you've got any last things you want to add or clarifications you wanna make let's Ajai, why don't you go first today? Ajai 00:35:47 Yeah, Tim, I thought this is a very fitting, closing to what we discussed and I don't know Mark, if I'm stealing from you, but <laugh>. I, I go first. So, second Corinthians in chapter three, verse 18, but we all with unveiled faces, looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the spirit. So we read this several times, but only recently I saw this at the beginning. It says, you know, we all with unveil faces. So unless the veil is removed, right, the, we cannot really, look at the Lord clearly. So in other words, if you want to have full transformation, you need the veil to be removed. So with unveiled faces, not with veil faces, we are looking at the Lord with unveil faces. We are looking at the Lord and being transformed, not on our own, but by the Lord who is a spirit. So Mark, the image imagery that you gave, I think is really beautiful, right? So walking to the Lord, Jesus Christ with the veil, and then we, the veil is unveiled. You know, when the bride goes to the groom, you, the veil is removed, right? With an unveiled face, she's looking at the groom. That's how we also, with the unveil face, we look at the Lord Jesus Christ and in looking at him and beholding him and beholding the finish work. We are transformed into the same image. Mark 00:37:17 Ajai, you actually did steal <laugh> what I was gonna say. <laugh> but that's all right. It just shows our, our unity and that we are of one accord. And what I'll say is the same thing, but I'm gonna use the NIV translation, which says, and we all who with unveiled faces, contemplate the Lord's glory are being transformed into his image with ever increasing glory, which is from the Lord who is the spirit. What a perfect <laugh> what a perfect two little, two line sentence there that just takes us through this. Sometimes Paul he's just so mathematical almost this plus this equals this. And to me, this is a mandate to all believers that are gonna share the gospel, especially preachers that are gonna go up in front of their congregation. Paul mentions two things that need to occur for us, for us to be transformed into the image of Christ. First, he tells us who's gonna do that transforming. He says, this is from the Lord who is the spirit. It's not you who are gonna do it by pulling up your own bootstraps by feeling guilty for your sin. By trying harder, by reading hundreds of Christian books on how to do this, how to overcome that. He says two things he says, and we all who with unveiled faces, contemplate the Lord's glory. Those are the two things that equal transformation and not just, it's not one time he says from glory to glory or with ever increasing glory, that is your almost mathematical equation for transformation and continued growth in grace. And so to me, that's what I believe pastors should spend their time doing with their congregations, helping them unveil themselves of those last vestiges of the law, which may be subtle, or maybe gross. And that way, once they've done that, now they can contemplate the Lord's glory and he can spend all his time pointing to Jesus just is, is the apostle Paul said when he said that he vowed to know nothing except Christ and him crucified. Tim 00:39:43 Amen. Well, gentlemen, this has been a spirited discussion tonight, and it's been a pleasure to talk to you again and have us all back together. That will wrap us forward tonight. We thank you for listening. We hope you've been blessed and enlightened, and we look forward to talking to you the next time We would like to thank you for listening to the unveiling. We hope you have enjoyed it enough to consider subscribing and sharing with others. We welcome your questions, comments, and feedback. You can reach us via email, the unveiled gospel, yahoo.com or find our Facebook page at the unveiling podcast. RFor Ajai, Mark and myself. God bless. And we will talk with you next time.