Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:07 Hi, and welcome to the unveiling. I'm Tim, one of the hosts, and along with Andrey and Mark, we are three guys discussing the one true gospel. We hope you're encouraged by this episode. Let's dive right in. Hello and welcome to the unveiling with your hosts. Hi, Jay, mark and Tim, us again. And this is episode 51. Guys, we're on episode 51. Can you believe we've already done 50 episodes?
Speaker 2 00:00:39 Unbelievable. One better than the other, too. Tim
Speaker 1 00:00:42 <laugh>, and thank you for saying so. Mark <laugh>. Well, you know what? It is great to be here, um, for episode 51. Uh, just I, we have had so much fun doing this over the past year and a half, and, uh, we hope that everybody's listening has managed to be encouraged and fed and maybe uplifted a little bit through all that we've been doing. Would you believe a year and a half ago when we started this thing, we'd get to this point, or even beyond this point?
Speaker 2 00:01:15 No. And who knows where God's gonna take it going forward?
Speaker 1 00:01:18 Uh, yeah, it, it's amazing what, uh, where we've gotten come from. And I remember hearing at one point from at least one of you, gee, I don't know how long we can do this. There's only so many things we can talk about God's grace on. It's, we're gonna have a limited amount of things to talk about. And I think I, I snuck a look over at the list of topics that we still want to cover. And it, it, it never stops growing. And there's more there than now than I think we can talk about, uh, in this year as it is. So, uh, the Lord really is bringing this to us. And I'm, and I am for one, just grateful is all get out, that, uh, we find something that the Lord wants to bring out every week.
Speaker 2 00:01:59 Well, it just really shows, you know, we're, we're, we're, scripture tells us the word of God is living inactive, and we have the spirit of wisdom and revelation in us. Every believer, I believe, as we walk through our lives, he continues to reveal greater depths of meaning and knowledge, and the spirits our guide teaching us all things. Amen.
Speaker 1 00:02:22 And when God, when God says it's a living word, he is absolutely correct. Cuz I've, I've read verses hundreds of times before only to stumble across them another time and go, holy cow, I didn't see that in there. Holy. Even though I could, I could have quoted the verse. Yep. You know, to you by a by heart,
Speaker 2 00:02:41 That happens to me all the time too. It's like, how did I not see that with, with I, and I didn't have the eyes to see it before, you know?
Speaker 3 00:02:50 Yeah, I was going to say, you know, it's so much easier to talk about deuce and don'ts, but you know, to talk about grace all the time, definitely we need the spirit himself to give us the word otherwise, you know, you know, sometimes we think, you know, like, oh yeah, we know the gospel. Right? It's a death, burial and resurrection for Lord Jesus Christ. Like, okay, how do we talk about it all the time? Right? But if you're talking about the law, you know, there are 10 commandments and on top of that, there are 650 different variations of that. You know, you can spend all your life and it's, uh, easy for people to talk about the law. And no wonder, you know, almost every other sermon is about what we must be doing. But speaking about Christ and him crucified, we are just talking about two words that takes the revelation of Lord Jesus Christ. And, uh, him giving us the words that we are,
Speaker 2 00:03:37 But the ramifications of Jesus Christ and Him crucified the implications that we are saved and sanctified by grace alone, the undeserved, unearned, unmerited favor of a, of God just reaches in to every area of our life. The first time I heard this gospel preached, I thought my head was gonna explode it. You know, I was so filled with excitement and joy. I'd been a Christian almost 25, 30 years. And when I heard the one through gospel, really for the first time in purity, uh, my head, my brain hurt cuz I'm like the ram of a first. I said, if this is true, the ramifications of this are never ending. And then I went about, of course, to make sure that this is true. And that's what kind of led me here with you guys.
Speaker 1 00:04:31 Well, and it's a good thing we are here and it's a good thing we've been able to come together cuz iron sharpens iron and we three have pretty good grasps of most of this, but not all of it. And we, we have our conversations. I mean, I'm telling y'all these two can go on for hours in text and in signal and in Telegram or whatever, whatever text products we're using. I have literally opened up my phone some days to see as many as a hundred and 120 messages stacked up to catch up on. So these two can really go to town, and that's great. We're we're helping, we're learning from each other and with each other. So today what I wanna do is I want to kind of look back at our first 50 episodes. I wanna look back at the podcast from the beginning.
Speaker 1 00:05:16 And, uh, you know, early on, we, we had talked about introducing ourselves a little bit, and we, we just never got into it because we got right into the topic of grace. And I think we just kept going from there. So maybe we'll have a few minutes here today to talk a little bit about who we are and where we come from. So, but before we do all that, I would like to invite everybody to come check out our website. Our, I we have our new website as of, I believe it was early November. And it's a great place to come and listen to any or all of the back issues of the podcast. And we have blogs out there where we have a nice regular blog where we're putting up thoughts and ideas as they come to us. We have a teachings blog, uh, which goes much more in depth into some of the topics of grace.
Speaker 1 00:06:04 And then we have just a general announcements blog for the, for the, uh, admin stuff, <laugh>, so to speak, from the team. So, um, we'd love to have you come out and check us out and read blogs. As always, we encourage you to, uh, subscribe to the podcast through whatever method you are, uh, using to listen. And if you want that, that website for our, for our podcast page, it is www.theunveiledgospel.com, and we'd love to have you come out there. Also, before we get started, I have to make a correction on our Christmas episode. We were talking at one point about the wise men who came from the East, and I had added some conjecture, some educated guesses, uh, about where they were from and, and how they knew what was going on. And those included that we believe possibly they were from Babylon. And, uh, I was talking about, uh, how Daniel, uh, was incarcerated in Babylon.
Speaker 1 00:07:11 And it, what I said was, David was incarcerated in Babylon, and I was wrong. I, I misspoke. I knew what it meant. It was in my head. I had the right character out of the Bible. It's just, uh, I, uh, couldn't get my tongue around my eye teeth to see what I was saying. So, uh, I misspoke. And so it was Daniel, in fact, who was a prolific Old Testament prophetic writer. And we believe that some of the writings may have stayed behind in Babylon, and if the Wiseman may have gotten hold of them to find out these things to know, to go to find Jesus when he was a very, very young child. So, my bad, and we'll move on from there, unless you guys have anything else to add to any of that?
Speaker 2 00:07:54 No, just, just to kind of add, well, no, and then I add <laugh>, that was kind of funny. Uh, I just wanted to add that we all take turns, you know, with a slip of the tongue. But our goal is always to bring scripture to the best of our ability, clearly and truthfully, without our own editorial comments. But that, so that's why when we do make a mistake, hopefully we catch it and can correct it just as Tim did. But we all take turns at that. And I think most of the time, you, the listener probably know what we mean, even if we don't say it. Well, hopefully.
Speaker 1 00:08:32 Always graceful. Mark, ever. Thank you very much, <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:08:35 Now Tim, I got a question for you. And now a little earlier you said that we're gonna look back at the 50 episodes. Are you trying to say that we're going to Harken back to them? Is is that what you're trying to say?
Speaker 1 00:08:48 Someone was gonna use that word in this episode. Mark, for those of our listeners who didn't quite catch that, um, harken is a word that I used early on. For some reason I was talking about something and said, harken back. And since then, um, it's been sprinkled throughout the podcast episodes. Not everyone, but, uh, mark, I'm gonna take that as an homage to myself.
Speaker 2 00:09:14 Okay? Yeah, <laugh>, we, we try to slip it in here and there as a running inside joke to crack each other up on the air. And some of you may have <laugh> noticed that, that have listened to a number of the episodes.
Speaker 1 00:09:27 Well, as long as we're starting there, mark, and we're talking about the b the past, this whole idea of this podcast surfaced came to light in, I think it was around April, 2021. The three of us were members of a men's group that were meeting virtually due to the pandemic. And before that, we had, we had been in that men's group in person, and I came to you guys with this crazy idea of us having a podcast about Grace. Well, what were your first reactions to that?
Speaker 2 00:10:03 I thought it was very exciting. As you mentioned, we were part of a men's group and over a number. Well, for me, I was late to the group, but as we went on each week in discussions, it seemed like AJ and Tim and I, I don't wanna say we were monopolizing the conversation <laugh>, but we, we definitely had a chemistry and things AJ said would challenge me and just, we would really, you know, I don't know. We just had a good chemistry. And I think, I think, uh, Tim was the first one to notice that. And this whole thing was really his vision, his idea of, Hey, let's the three of us get together and see if we can, um, use our gifts and our excitement about the one true gospel to, to get it out there for people.
Speaker 3 00:10:52 Yeah, from my side, uh, Tim, you know, as you know, when you reach out to me, I was like, podcast and me <laugh>. I never thought of it, you know, I was like, okay, did, did this guy go a little crazy or what? So <laugh>. But, you know, uh, well then I prayed about it and, uh, eventually, you know, I started, uh, participating and, uh, you know, lot has been gracious. It's, uh, it's not me, but it seems so
Speaker 1 00:11:17 Just for the record, Ajay, I have never been a little crazy <laugh> <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:11:25 Now this, uh, this group came together after that, um, I, I think we spent six months just talking really kind of getting the measure of each other, uh, our faith in this one true gospel, kind of how and where we stood with it because we'd been in a group where everybody was at a different level or a different part of their path and journey in the one true gospel. And I think we, you know, we try to make sure that we're all speaking as one and in unity, and we, we hash things out behind the scenes. And the first six months, I would say we spent a lot of time just talking back and forth, like in this format and getting down how we, you know, how to have a conversation without stepping all over everybody. And I don't know, I think that that did very well for us for the, you know, the first few podcasts. I had a couple of friends who I used I podcasted with in the past who told me, you know, for your first couple of episodes, your, your Flow was very good. Now they mocked me for the technical stuff, but, uh, we got past all that over time. <laugh>, we got better microphones and whatnot. So, but, uh, the, I think those first episodes, despite some of the issues were really, really good.
Speaker 2 00:12:43 Yeah. It gave us a chance to at least start building a dynamic between the three of us that we're still working on and building all the time. Tim said that we, we learn not to interrupt each other. Well, you two may have learned that I'm still working on that one, but, uh, you know what, when you got as important as not as stuff to say as I do, it's hard not to interrupt. Right.
Speaker 1 00:13:05 <laugh> <laugh>, excellent point, mark. Just
Speaker 2 00:13:08 Kidding.
Speaker 1 00:13:09 So we, uh, we had, we decided everything as a group, uh, right down to the name of the podcast and the name of the ministry. And so Mark, um, the unveiling, what do you, where did that come from?
Speaker 2 00:13:25 Well, I gotta first say I love that term. It's got such a poetic leading to it. It makes you think like what's being unveiled. And the way I got it was one of my favorite chapters in the Bible. And we've, jo we have an inside running joke on this too, <laugh>, where we bring up Second Corinthians three, which I think I i I, that chapter first hit me like a ton of bricks couple years ago, maybe three years ago. And I literally devotionally studied that chapter every day. It's just an absolutely beautiful chapter. And I'm just gonna go through it real quickly to kinda show you where we got the name, the unveiling. But the first half of two Corinthians three, starting at verse seven, the Apostle Paul beautifully explains that the ministry of the old covenant was a ministry of death and condemnation that was only meant to be a transition to take us to the new covenant, which is an everlasting ministry of righteousness and of such surpassing glory that in comparison the old covenant has no glory at, at all.
Speaker 2 00:14:39 And he also tells him that first half, that the new covenant is the ministry of the Holy Spirit. And then he goes on and after just, just comparing these two things and it's like night and day, literally. Uh, he says as a conclusion, therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses who had put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away, but their minds were made dull for to this day, the same veil remains when the old covenant is read, it has not been removed because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit. And where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
Speaker 2 00:15:43 And he concludes, which with what I think is one of the most beautiful descriptions of the Christ Christian life, he says, and we all who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory are being transformed into his image with ever increasing glory, which comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. And that's where we got the unveiling. Um, you know, that last summarization there, Paul is saying that all growth, all transformation into the image of Christ comes by the spirit as we unveil our faces and our hearts of the old covenant law, of the dead works, of the law, of our flesh, our abilities to do things right, our ability not to sin, that's a veil that even though it seems right in our eyes to try to do that, Paul is saying that's a veil that keeps you from contemplating the Lord's glory. That's the focus.
Speaker 2 00:16:48 Jesus is the focus. Remove the veil of religion, of law, of behavior, modification of performance. We, there's a million words for it, rules and regulation. It's basically religion is what it is. That's a veil. We need to remove that. And it's not that easy. It takes time and it takes other Christians to help us cuz sometimes we don't hear it when we speak things that are old covenant. And so that's where we got the unveiling. It's our, our heartfelt desire that we ourselves would help each other to unveil ourselves of, uh, the dead works of the law, of our own flesh and abilities, and completely focus on the Lord Jesus Christ. And, uh, that's our heartfelt desire for you, the listener as well.
Speaker 3 00:17:36 Yeah. If I may add a little bit, uh, uh, mark and Tim, you know, uh, if you go to chapter four, it says, you know, the gospel, if the gospel be wailed, right? It is wailed to those who are basically under the dominion of the devil. So, you know, devil does put all kinds of bails, the main one being, you know, the law that you know, you got to do this, this, and this for God to save you. So apart from that, you know, all kinds of lies he uses as a veil. And unless that bail is removed, we cannot really clearly see the gospel. But the beauty is, you know, in order to remove the veil again, you know, we are not going to strive or struggle to tear it apart, but we simply lift up our lodges, Christ, Christ, and in crucified. So the more we lift up our lodges Christ, the more the veil will come apart. Just like the veil was torn from top to bottom when the lodge Christ was crucified, and they said it is finished. So all we need to do is lift up the finished work of our lodge, Christed, and the veil will come down.
Speaker 1 00:18:39 I've always liked the picture of the veil coming down in the temple be being torn from top to bottom because it, it implies that it wasn't, it wasn't torn bottom to top like as if by a man, but from top to bottom as if God is literally opening that. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:18:56 That's awesome. I was just gonna ask you, because you're the one who came up with, what is it like if, if we were asked, what is it you're trying to unveil and how did you get the term, the one true gospel? What is it we're unveiling the gospel of? We, I've never heard, other than this podcast, people refer to it as the one true gospel. That's not the, that term isn't in the Bible. Um, and you said, what we're, Tim, I don't know, maybe you don't remember this, but I believe it was you who said that what we're trying to do is unveil the gospel of all that is not the gospel.
Speaker 1 00:19:34 That was AJ's line,
Speaker 2 00:19:35 Was it? I thought it was your line.
Speaker 1 00:19:37 No, he, he brought that up when we were trying to come up with some descriptive, uh, descriptive words for the website. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 2 00:19:45 Oh, I'm sorry, aj, I'm sorry. No,
Speaker 3 00:19:47 I don't mind if, if you had attribute to Tim <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:19:52 We, we explained this at one point, Tim in one of our podcasts, that when we say one true gospel, we're not trying to say we've got it right. Everybody else has got it wrong. That's not the point of the one true gospel. We got that from Galatians chapter one from the Apostle Paul. And for those that don't know, Paul's epistle to the Galatians was not written to a single church, but to a group of churches that he had planted during his first missionary voy voyage to Asia Minor, which is modern day Turkey. And most theologians believe that was in the spring of AD 47. So Galatia was not a city, but a region that he had planted many churches. He planted a church in Pai in Antioch, I Iconium Lira and Derby, and these are all in Galatia. So when he's writing this letter, he's writing it to these group of churches in this region of Asian Asia minor.
Speaker 2 00:20:54 And after he left from planting those churches, he had planted the one true pure gospel among them after he left. I mean, wolves and sheep's clothing, you know, actually came in there. These were Jewish Christians, they were called Judaizers. They believed that Christianity and salvation were through faith in Jesus Christ. But they believed that that was not enough on his own, that you also had to keep the mosaic law, the Jewish law. And they were, they were coming in and starting to lead the Galatian believers astray. And so Paul took that opportunity to write to them, to remind them what that one true gospel is. And he said this in Galatians one, six, he said, I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel. So right there in that one sentence, he's telling you that living in the grace of Christ is the gospel, and now they're turning to a different gospel.
Speaker 2 00:22:05 And then he te this is where we get the one true gospel, he says, which is really no gospel at all. Evidently, some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ, which he already told us that gospel is living in the grace of Christ. And, and Paul says this, then to just emphatically make the point, he says, I don't care if an angel from heaven comes down here and preaches a different gospel. He says, I don't care if I change my mind and preach a different gospel. He says, let them be under God's curse. He says that we've already said so. Now I say again, if anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted from us, let them be under God's curse. And that gospel was living in the grace of Christ. And I can't imagine him being anymore powerful, emphatic and downright angry. And the thing about him saying is, if you're preaching a different gospel, which in their case was adding the law, they are under a curse because that's what the law is, where people, anybody who does not keep the law perfectly is under a curse. And Christ came and hung on a tree and became a curse for us to deliver us from that curse. So that's where we got it from. Paul is very clear there, living in the grace of Christ is the only gospel, the one true gospel.
Speaker 3 00:23:37 To simplify this right, simply put, when we say one true gospel, all we are saying is there's only one gospel. There are not two gospels, there are not 10 GOs gospels. But what happened over time is, you know, people have perverted the gospel like Mark said, and our focus and our desire is to bring back people to the one gospel, which is a gospel of grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. And uh, this is my favorite scripture, mark already said, you know, living in the grace of Christ is the gospel That begs the question, you know, what is grace? When we say grace again, people might have different interpretations of grace. That's why Bible is very clearly calls out what grace is. If it is by grace, it is not by works otherwise, grace is no longer grace. And if it is by works, it cannot be by grace.
Speaker 3 00:24:25 Otherwise works are no longer works. So basically grace and works, they don't mix like oil and water, they don't mix at all. But what's happening throughout, uh, the agencies, you know, they're mixing grace and works and basically taking the power out of grace. Right. You know, if you mix law and grace, you take the strictness out of the law and you take the power out of grace, you know, it becomes good for nothing. That's why in Revelations, you know, Lord says, you can be hot or warm, but don't be lukewarm. You know, many people might be thinking that, oh no, you can be perfect or you can be sinful, but don't be kind of a mixture. But I think here the, uh, true interpretation I would think is, you know, you either you just be, um, totally under the law or you'll be totally under grace. You know, you can't mix law and grace, then it is good for nothing. So that's what people are doing. So when we talk about grace, we are saying for salvation or sanctification or for holiness or for anything even in Christian life, it is all by grace. You know, we don't bring our works. We don't have a give to get gospel. It's only freely received gospel.
Speaker 1 00:25:33 Amen. Absolutely. This is just proof you can't get the three of us together to talk about something that doesn't turn into a grace conversation. So <laugh>, so, you know, my idea a little bit was to try and center on, uh, the 50 episodes and us and and stuff, um, just right into Grace. Famm, you can't help us. We're we're helpless.
Speaker 2 00:25:53 <laugh>. I doubt if you could find an episode that we don't <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:25:57 Oh, no, yeah, no, I it's of course that's the whole point of this podcast. So, right. Speaking of trying to get a couple of things, uh, out there tonight without being narcissistic, uh, when we started this thing, we had talked about, you know, taking time in an episode to kind of introduce ourselves and talk a little bit about our, I don't know if testimony is the right word, but how we came to grace. How did we get involved with this message and how did it, you know, come to us and impact us so much that we're out here doing this. Now, I've said this way too many times, mark, but why don't you start us off on this path,
Speaker 2 00:26:35 <laugh>, can you really say that too many times? Tim <laugh>, I wanted to just kind of point out something AJ said, and that is that grace is for all of life. It's not just for salvation. And I think it's one of the great points that came out of this podcast, and it all really kind of came to the forefront when you went back to visit your family in India. And I think you, I'll let you tell the story of how you were listening to some ministries on TV there and how you commented to your sister.
Speaker 3 00:27:09 Yeah, mark, you know, I was, uh, talking, well when I went to India, right? I was listening to sermons and you know, they do talk about the Lord Jesus Christ and the salvation and the cross, but he's always on the sidelines. He's not the center. And the central message always is, you know, what we have to do most of the time is, you know, either what we have to do for the Lord or just about Christian behavior, right? If you're a Christian, you won't be doing this. Just be a good husband, good wife, this, that, and all that. Nothing wrong with that. But, you know, I kind of, I was wondering, you know, I asked my sister, Hey, uh, why do you think, you know, most of the messages are, uh, always focused on what we have to do rather than what Christ has done for us. And she commented, you know, they think grace is only for salvation. That was her comment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:27:59 And that, you know, I think, I think we tend to see that, I believe that's more prevalent than pe than people trying to work for salvation is trying to work for their own sanctification. In fact, that's one of the things that Paul said to the Galatians. He said, are you so foolish after b beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? And then he summarized by saying that the patriarch Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. It's all
Speaker 3 00:28:33 Faith. Amen.
Speaker 2 00:28:35 And, uh, we're gonna jump into our bios now and to set that up. After Paul passed me the football, Tim passed me the football. Um, Romans one 17 said, for in the gospel, the righteousness of God is revealed a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written, the righteous will live by faith. I love that from first to last, it clears up. Any misunderstanding is what's your part? You have none. Righteousness is by faith from first to last. There's nothing left in there for you to do, even if you wanted to. And this is the key scripture that Martin Luther wrestled with in the mixed midst of being a Augustinian monk and trying to do every religious work there were. There was to make himself feel better about his own lack of righteousness. He finally understood that and it launched the Great Reformation.
Speaker 2 00:29:36 And as we get into our individual bios and testimonies about how this message of God's grace impacted us, I wanna read you what Luther said after the fact, he said, and he was talking about the rediscovery of the one true gospel of grace. He said, when I discovered this, I was born again of the Holy Ghost and the doors of paradise swung open. And I walk through, and I know from one time or another, the three of us have shared very similar stories and feelings as that of Martin Luther. I'll let one of you guys kick that off.
Speaker 3 00:30:12 Yeah. So, you know, like Mark is saying about Martin Luther and about himself, you know, I also, my personal experience also has been, you know, before coming to the grace of God, I really wanted to be a God's guy, right? I wanted to live a holy life, you know, I wanted to live a perfect life. But, uh, I really struggled with that. And I did actually read every book available on sanctification. And there are some books that are written on Christian perfection by some great names, like, you know, uh, John Wesley and people like Charles Finney Watchman. So there's no book I did not read, but, uh, I still, you know, I couldn't get to a place in a where I felt like, oh my God, now I got it all. But, uh, by God's grace, you know, I was reading my Bible and going through stuff, and then I stumbled upon this verse like, mark is talking about the righteousness I, in Romans five 17, it says, for if by one man's oftens, death reigned through the one much more, those who receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness will reign in life through one Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3 00:31:22 So that's funny. You know, the light bulb went off for me. I was like, I just saw clearly righteousness is a gift. And all along I was trying to become righteous by, based on what I was doing, even though I was seeking after holiness, but I was actually trying to become righteous on my own. And when I saw that righteousness is a gift, I simply, you know, literally exercise faith. Lord, if righteousness is a gift, I receive it. And my life, it's been 2000, I think it's 2008, many, many years, I dunno how many years, but my life has never been the same ever since. And I can go hours and hours talking about this. So righteousness is a gift. In fact, you know, um, most of the Bible, you know, talks about righteousness. You know, if you, i if you, if you search through the scriptures, probably sanctification occurs like two, three times or four times at most, and count how many times righteousness comes. But somehow our focusness, our focus is more on sanctification without understanding that righteousness is a key outworking of right. Sanctification is nothing but outworking of our righteousness. What people are trying to do is working out their own righteousness and thereby become holy. But God says righteousness is a gift. When you receive that gift and rested in it, you'll work out that righteousness and that becomes our sanctification.
Speaker 2 00:32:46 That really agrees with a point that Martin Luther made. He said that there's something he called Usia El Elma, I can't even pronounce it. Elum, I believe it's pronounced, which means the only righteousness is a righteousness that's alien to us. He said, it's extra nose, which is Latin for outside of us. And when he came to the same understanding that you did, aj, it changed his life. And a good thing for us all, because that's how we rediscovered what the one true gospel is
Speaker 1 00:33:18 Tes test. I don't think it's gonna matter much, which one of us is saying how they got to this point. I think the stories between the three of us are gonna bear striking similarities. I was, I was born in a Christian home raised Christian, um, when I got older, and I mean, even heck, when I was in high school, I was working in the church, I was working in the sound booth and recording the sermons to give to these shut-ins and stuff like that, you know, and I worked my way up in the church, uh, onto boards. I've started running youth groups. When I got old enough to be older than the youth <laugh>. Um, I, I mean, I, I was heavily involved. And for me, it wasn't about the joy. Uh, I was getting out of it, but I thought I was working for God.
Speaker 1 00:34:05 And every Sunday I'd show up at church and there'd be a sermon about something, and that something would be my focus for the next week. How to have a better prayer life in 10 easy steps. Or, you know, uh, how to be a better husband or, and, and I took all these messages to heart. I did, because I knew I didn't measure up on any of them at any given moment, but over time, I got so tired, I got worn out. We refer to it as the rodent wheel <laugh>. Uh, and it, what it is, why it got so tiring was every week it would be a different topic. It was never like, yeah, I mean, unless it was a seven week series or something. But I'd focus heavily on that only to get through at the end of the week and realize didn't I wasn't where I wanted to be.
Speaker 1 00:34:56 And I certainly couldn't maintain the level to which I had maybe attained that week before he was onto something else. If you take you, you know, those long balloons that make, um, balloon animals out of, if you take one of those and you grab it in the middle, you got a really good firm grasp there in the middle. And the middle's all shrunken down, but the two ends now are bulging. And if you grab one of those ends and, and grip down on it, now that end in the middle are down. But now the, any of the other pieces peeking out are bulging even further. It was never, I never addressed anything long term. It was always short term while I was focusing on it. And then it would slide for the next topic. And what, what came out of that was constantly feeling guilty about, well, I didn't, I never got where I wanted to be on that one.
Speaker 1 00:35:41 And I can't, don't think I can, but here we are with the next one, so let's double down and try harder. Uh, tired, guilty, shameful, you know, before God. And that is not the attitude that, you know, I read about in the Bible, come into his presence with singing, you know, coming to his courts with praise. I didn't feel those things. I was slinking in the, in the back door and trying to stand by the wall in the shadows, <laugh>, you know? So, uh, I guess at some point I just literally got burned out and stepped away from church for a while. And then when I started going back to churches, I went to churches I hadn't been a part of, didn't want people to see me know me. I didn't want to be, you know, oh, Tim, he worked in the church. No, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 00:36:27 I had nothing to do with running. No, you know, working in no churches. I've just a, I'm just a congregate now, or a visitor or whatever. And I stumbled across a church that was teaching grace, the, the one true gospel as we call it. And I was mad, I was angry. I confronted the pastor over the course of, you know, the couple year or two that I was in that church. I confronted him a lot. How can this be true? This is what I was taught. I was taught you have to do this, this, this, and this, and you notice the words you I have to do. And, uh, he helped despite my confrontational attitude towards him on, in, on learning, um, I'm sorry, pastor George, wherever you are. Uh, I, it got it started to get in. And then, um, as circumstances and places changed, I, I maintained finding a place that was teaching this.
Speaker 1 00:37:23 And since then, it's been, it was a struggle at first, but it's gotten easier and easier as I've a, as the spirit in me has really, uh, testified to the truth of the messages I was receiving. And I, I have come a long way in that time to learn how I don't have to do it all. I don't have to be ashamed when I, when I fall down, I don't have to be, uh, guilty, uh, and, and en lifted worlds off of me. So, uh, I mean, like I said, I'm sure that echoes a lot of what you guys have said and are about to say, mark.
Speaker 2 00:37:57 Yeah, definitely a weight was taken off when I came to the one true gospel, just like you guys mentioned, my story was a little different in that I thought there was something wrong with me. I loved the Lord, I'd become a Christian, but I kept falling to the same things over and over again. I'd have to spend two or three days adjust with a heavy weight of guilt and self-imposed condemnation until I could do it two or threes, three days in a row without stumbling, go back to church. Then I would feel great about myself again. But then boom, fall to the same old thing again. Finding myself asking for the hundredth time, Lord, please forgive me. And just living with that weight that's, I just can remember probably a decade and a half of just feeling like my shoulders were bent down from the weight of, of self condemnation, guilt, and shame.
Speaker 2 00:38:59 I thought there was something wrong with me. Why are all these other people at church able to do this all perfectly? But I can't <laugh>. And, uh, you know, and considering that AJ and Tim were probably at church, they weren't doing it perfect either, right? That was, that's every Christian's pers perspective. I think sometimes it's, they're the bad ones who aren't doing this well enough because they know themselves. Everybody else looks nice and shiny in church on a Sunday. So it was like a weight lifted off. We always talk about the durable wheel or the hamster wheel of the harder you run, the harder you try to do it, the more self condemned, guilty and shamed you get and you never get anywhere. But another, I think analogy for me, and when I think back at my Christian life was more like a merry-go-round. Up and down, up and down. Spiritual high, spiritual low, never get anywhere cuz you're still going in a circle, but you're feeling good, you're feeling bad, you're ju and that was my life for, for a good portion of it. And so thankful. And I think for all three of us, if we think when Jesus said, whom the Son sets free is free indeed. I never had any idea what that meant until I finally had come into an understanding of the one true gospel of grace.
Speaker 1 00:40:21 Agreed. I, and again, I think that, uh, different circumstances have been very similar stories. And so that's been, that's great. And I'm glad we got the opportunity to, uh, give up a give up a little bit about ourselves here to everybody. Um, but you know, me, I'm my favorite faves is the clock on the wall keeps ticking. Um, and there's still a few things I wanna get through. So I would like to say, you know, we've done 50 episodes and I wanna give you each a chance to, you can pick whatever you wanna bring out of this. You can tell us your favorite episode or topic or a money, a moment that sticks out in your mind, or a funny story or whatever you want to, um, just to give everybody one last peek into who you are. Cause they can go check those out and, and, uh, learn more about what you think is funny or deep or what. So, uh, andjay, I I have said Mark way too many times tonight. Ajay, have you got anything like that that comes to mind?
Speaker 3 00:41:17 Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tim, uh, you believe it or not, you know, um, remember, you know, one of the days, nothing against you, mark, but, uh, <laugh>. I think
Speaker 2 00:41:27 That's, that's a bad preface. AJ <laugh> nothing against you, mark, but I know, know, I'm not gonna like what's about to come. <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:41:35 Mark was out. And, uh, finally we got to talk
Speaker 4 00:41:40 <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:41:44 All right, all don't be ganging up on me,
Speaker 4 00:41:48 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:41:49 Tim. I'll give you 10, I'll give you 10 bucks to edit that part out.
Speaker 4 00:41:53 <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:41:54 <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:41:55 That was the most boring of all our episodes too, by the way. <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:42:01 Ouch.
Speaker 3 00:42:03 Yeah. You know, mark was out. And Tim, you know, we said we came together and we didn't actually, uh, prepare for it. And then we said, you know, hey, let's talk and see where it goes. And then we talked about, uh, living a guilt free life. And it went into understanding and talking about only the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ has the power to erase sin. And then we talked about, you know, Lord is not imputing sin, but he is continually imputing righteousness to us. So I'm giving a quick summary, but, uh, that episode, uh, is uh, one of my favorites. Of course, there are many, one of the reasons that was my favorite is for two reasons. One is it was all on the spot, right? We did not prepare for it just, uh, relied on the Lord. And, uh, I also had a, uh, feedback from one of our brothers.
Speaker 3 00:42:54 You know, he was, uh, going through a, a, a kind of, you know, not a very good state of mind, but, you know, somehow he ran into this episode and then, you know, it opened his eyes to just how strongly it came that, uh, Lord is not imputing sin to us. No, never. So that is a good memory. And, uh, apart from that, of course there are many, right? You know, we talked about, um, the cross, you know, the benefits of the cross and, uh, what it means to us. And, uh, we also, as we started, we just started talking about the Holy Spirit. We did not even know where it takes us, but we went into many, many episodes talking about the Holy Spirit and how to walk in the Holy Spirit. Yeah, since, uh, we don't have a lot of time, you know, I would stop here, but, um, there are many, many, you know, great memories and, uh, thank God for that. We never planned on it. But, uh, Lord came through for us.
Speaker 1 00:43:51 Excellent. Excellent. Thank you for sharing and for getting a dig in on Mark, cuz it's so hard to sometimes <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:43:59 You know, someone has to take the role of punching bag. I'll step up
Speaker 4 00:44:04 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:44:05 So IJ that for the record is episode 34, living Guilt Free. And that was, it was a good discussion. Um, mark, you were missed. I don't care what he says or, or I don't care what I say either. So thank you Tim. So Mark, why don't you go next?
Speaker 2 00:44:19 You know, I just, just on an emotional level, as I think back about the different topics in series, um, I really, really enjoyed the debunking Christian myths. Or is Tim titled it things I used to Know. I just thought that our discussions, uh, were very live on that one. And it, and we looked at a bunch of things that Christians have believed for centuries, including us, just took it for granted because somebody told it to us. And as we came into the knowledge of the one True Gospel, we started seeing, wait a minute, this, how could this be right? How could this be right? And I, to me, that was one of my favorite. Cuz I just thought we all just had a really good deep conversation about some of those things. And most of my, think, most of our listeners have heard and can relate to themselves.
Speaker 1 00:45:14 You know, it's really funny, mark, is that was, that was, uh, on my brain to be the one that I picked as the best series. Uh, and you know what? You're right. It was a great time. It was very good discussions, uh, that those were early on. Those were, uh, like somewhere where episode eight ish.
Speaker 2 00:45:33 Yeah, I think we had 6, 7, 8 episodes, two each one with like maybe two or three different Christian myths.
Speaker 1 00:45:41 Yeah, it, uh, it started with episode nine, that was part one. And I think we had, you know, us, we have to have seven episodes on something <laugh> and they have through, through episode 15. So, all right, so since you, you, uh, took my thunder, um, I'm going, I'm going to, uh, I'm gonna pick my favorite episode. And the reason why is because I think it would be the best episode to use to give to somebody to say, this is what these guys are talking about and who they are. And it's, there's not much of a better introduction. And it's episode 27, the One True Gospel. You know, we echoed some of that in today's episode. But, uh, this was us just trying to tear away everything that wasn't the gospel from what is the gospel. And it's a great first, uh, impression, uh, episode for people because, um, I think it flowed very well.
Speaker 1 00:46:39 I think the, the topic was wonderful and I think we did a very good job of concisely, uh, pairing that down into a manageable, um, episode, which really did a very good job of describing it all. So that would probably be my favorite episode, um, for that. Well, we've had a really great time doing this up to this date, and I think, I think we're gonna keep doing it probably a couple more weeks. Who knows? We'll see, uh, <laugh> and, uh, we get so much out of this. I I'm hoping that, that people who are listening are getting a lot out of it, but we get so much out of it because we get together in multiple ways outside of the podcast discussions going on, uh, topics being discussed, um, things happening. It's been a wonderful fellowship of three people, even though we are physically distanced whenever we are close together.
Speaker 1 00:47:40 I, this past summer, I was in the Chicago area, so AJ and I managed to get together and I think, uh, you guys got together for holiday six or eight months before that mm-hmm. <affirmative> or maybe more, I don't remember. But, uh, so whenever we're close we do try and actually get together and, and fellowship in person. But I think we benefited from this way more some days. I feel like we benefit from this way more than even the people who are listening. And it's because of that fellowship. And I'd like to encourage everybody, if you're not in a group, find a group, get together, meet up regular, I don't care what your format is, it can be on, we do it. We did it virtually for almost two years with the men's group. Now that we are physically disparate right now we're doing, uh, most of our stuff over technology.
Speaker 1 00:48:32 Um, or you can meet in someone's home, you can do it dinner, you can do it midday, uh, evening, whatever you want, just get with people. The men's group used to pick a book and we'd read through a chapter, well, we never got, very rarely got through a whole chapter in a single meeting, but we'd start reading it and then discussing the points that were being brought up in it. Uh, we picked a couple of, uh, Joseph Prince books early on and found those were very good. But guys, what do you think about that idea of, uh, trying to get people to gather up?
Speaker 2 00:49:03 I think that's an awesome idea, but the key to that being of value is Jesus Christ and him crucified to be in a group that is seeking to know the one true gospel. Cuz that's what's hard in this world. It's hard to find, uh, find a church that's preaching the pure gospel. So if you can get with other people that are seeking to understand and have the spirit of wisdom and revelation, help them to know God better and to know what that one true gospel is, and to sift out and unveil the one true gospel of all that is not part of it, but has been added by man and man's religious inclinations over the centuries, then it's got great value, life changing value.
Speaker 3 00:49:54 Yeah. So the scripture says, do not fore assembling even as a day approaches. So we are meant to, you know, we are all one in Christ and we are, we are called the body of Christ. So we are meant to come together and encourage each other. And, uh, as, um, mark said, right, you know, the focus has to be our largest Christ, Christ and in crucified, and it is easy to get carried away, but uh, with the, the things we do right, nothing wrong with that and encouraging each other, pumping up each other to do things. But, uh, that's not the focus. You know, our focus is to encourage each other to rest and, uh, rush in the finished worker for Lord Jesus Christ and the works will automatically flow out of us. You know, that's not something we need to worry. We are not saying that you should be lazy and not do anything, but as we reached in the lodge is Christ, the finish works, his finish work will flow out of us.
Speaker 1 00:50:51 Amen. And with that, I'm going to do something I've never done before. I'm going to give enough plug to somebody who's not us. If you guys don't mind, if you're looking for a church in your area that is a great church, or if there isn't one in your area, you want to find some good online resources, uh, be they websites or podcasts or, um, you know, ministry radio shows or whatnot. There is a website called locate grace ministries.com and they are a very good place to start to help you find something that you can get involved with. Again, like be at a local church or, um, ministry organization, online podcast or whatnot. Um, encourage you to give them a checkout and hopefully you can find something near you or that works for you. And with that gentlemen, 50 plus episodes, thank you so much. Uh, it's been a wonderful, uh, ride and I can't wait to see what the next 50 will bring. I guess it's time for the usual sign off. Until the next time,
Speaker 1 00:52:04 Tim, again, thanks for listening today. We hope you were blessed by today's message. If so, we encourage you to subscribe and share our podcast with your friends and family. Our entire catalog of episodes can be found on our website at www.theunveiledgospel.com. Or you can listen and subscribe on most popular podcast apps. If you have any feedback or questions, you can send us an email to the unveiled gospel yahoo.com. You can reach out to us on our Facebook page, the Unveiling Podcast, or you can leave a question or comment on our listener line at 3 5 2 3 9 8 0 0 8 9. Maybe you'll hear yourself on a future episode. That's it for today. As always, God bless and we will talk to you the next time.
