Episode 10 – Part 2 of “Things I Used to Know – Debunking Christian Myths”

Tim 00:00:24 Hey guys. Welcome back to another week, another discussion, another revelation and, and literal joy in the grace of God. Last week, we started talking about a subject that I guess I'm gonna probably have to call this a series now. Cause it looks like we're gonna have more than one of them. and that was well, listeners, let us know which, which title you like better because it's one of two things either we're talking about things I used to know, which implies that we grew up in the Christian Church and learned things one way but once we found grace learned a new way or debunking Christian myths, which even though some people may know about grace, they're still teaching kind of a mixed gospel of the law and grace together. So last week we coupled we covered a couple of topics this week I think we've got a couple more. I think we're gonna start with Mark. Why don't you introduce it? Mark 00:01:24 Okay. Just to bounce off of what you just said, Tim, I don't think Christians have the market cornered on things I used to know, because I think the whole world is out there thinking they know what the one true gospel is, and most of them got it wrong, they've got little pieces, something they saw on TV, something they read on a book. Maybe they went to church one Easter when they were little, just a, just a, a Modge podge of things that are not based on pure scripture and the pure one true gospel. So I actually say we do both. We call it things. I used to know de debunking Christian myths. It's a little wordy, but it'll look good when we put out our New York times bestselling book. Tim 00:02:12 <laugh> yeah, I like that, man. I like that. Go ahead. No, lead us forward. Mark 00:02:16 Well, we, we did three last weekend. We're gonna try to get three out today. There's no time we can go short or longer so we don't have to get 'em in, but we're gonna start out one that is very famous, and we've all heard it used on TV. It's it's in, it's used in different religions, as a matter of fact, some people would call it karma, but the Bible calls it “We reap what we sow”. So, it's basically saying you do something bad, you're gonna get something bad happen to you. You do something good, now you're gonna get something good coming to you. And some people might say, well, Mark, that is in the Bible, right? And I would say to them, yes, it is. There's a lot of things in the Bible. And there are different covenants in the Bible. There's the old covenant. There's the new covenant. There are many other promises God has made, which is just another word for covenant. That being said, some things we are not responsible for we are not ceremonial Jews, we're living under the old covenant law in Old Testament times. So, everything that's said there, we can learn from, and most of it points to the coming of Christ, but that doesn't mean we are responsible to live by that. So, we are called to rightly divide the word of truth. And as one of my old friends used to say, that means that everything we read in the Bible, we filter through the perfect and finished work of Christ on the cross. And rightly dividing the word of truth means dividing between what was old covenant law and what is the gospel of grace. Tim 00:04:04 You said that our actions don't produce effects in the world, so when we get a guy who jumps up on TV, who is maybe a Christian leader saying, well that hurricane that hit that city or that town, that was the wrath of God. We we're not under that anymore and even if, even if that whole city was as corrupt as all get out, what happened there was natural effect from the breaking of the perfect world, when Eden, when they, we, we broke Eden and we were kicked out. Now we live in a world where there are hurricanes and tornadoes and storms and things. Those aren't the wrath of God anymore, those are natural things, and I have to tell you, I spent a lot of time yelling at my TV during a particular storm going, you're “shut up. You're making the rest of us look bad”. Mark 00:04:56 Yeah. That's somebody who was not rightly dividing the word of truth. He was a very famous Bible commentarian, Matthew Henry, to this day it's one of the most read Bible commentaries. He said that the old covenant prophet cries out to show people their sin. The new covenant prophet cries out to show people their Savior. So, what that guy, whoever that was yelling that this is the punishment of God for their sin; first of all, he doesn't know that even if it was that, but which we know it's not, but that's not what he's called to do, he's called to tell those hurting people, how much God loves them. So much that he sent his Son for them and wants to make them alive in Christ. So, he's off on so many, so many different things. That's another whole podcast though, Tim. but what I, what I was doing is I, I was just saying what reap, reaping, what you sow means, I wasn't getting into specifics on that yet. So I, I think you took it that I was somehow, you know, but so, so, so I'm Tim 00:06:12 so I'm sorry for having done that. I didn't mean to take us on a bunny trail, Mark 00:06:15 But no, that's okay. It led to a good place. So Tim 00:06:18 Ajai, you have a very pensive look on your face. What do you have to add to this? Ajai 00:06:21 No, no, no, no. I was going to ask mask, you know, sorry, Mark. so Mark, why is it not true? Like if it is written in the Bible, what you sow is what you reap, why do you say that, you know, it's not true anymore? Mark 00:06:38 It's not true because of the cross. Okay. We're no longer under a law. You do this, you're going to be blessed. You do this bad thing, you're going to be cursed. Okay, we're not under that anymore. A better way of saying would be that, that we reap what Christ sowed on our behalf. That's grace, undeserved, unmarrited, unearned, favor, and love and blessing of God on our lives. Reap what you sow is all about what you do. Now. I wanna, I wanna differentiate this, this is one of Tim's themes, and I think it's a good one and that is that there's a difference in some things between our, well big thing, big difference between our relationship with God on a vertical plane, from us up to him, and then with each other on a horizontal plane. If I go up to Ajai and smack him in the face, there's a good chance he's gonna smack me back. [Yeah.] And so I will have reaped what I, what I, what are the past tenses? Wrought what I sewn? I dunno. <laughs>, I will have reaped what I sowed, but this is not true anymore in our relationship with God. That's what, that's what's wrong with looking at a disaster or something that's bad that someone's going through and saying they're getting punished by God. It's just not true anymore. We don't get what we deserve in our relationship with God. God, because Christ went in and took the bad that we deserve and gave us the good we don't deserve. That's the difference between grace and mercy! [Yeah.] So, on a human plane sometimes we do, we do reap what we have sewn, whether it's at work in our marital life or friendships. But even that, I mean, even that many times, I feel like God shields us from the full, even on a horizontal plane, from the full possibility of what could have came from that in a bad way. You understand what I'm saying on that? Ajai 00:08:50 Yeah. Yeah. In fact, you know, Tim, you mentioned the garden of Eden and then Mark, you mentioned the cross, you know, I wanted to kind of tie it together and kind of go back all the way to the garden. Right. So, what happened in the garden is like Adam sinned, right, and then what Adam sowed the whole humanities are reaping. So, you said like Mark, you talked about dividing the word of truth and looking everything or filtering everything through the finished work of a Lord Christ. So what happened, right, if you go all the way to the beginning, Adam sinned and because we were in Adam at that time, we were all the children of Adam. We all actually reaped the what Adam sowed. The wages of sin death. Adam brought that into this world, so we all are reaping to what Adam did and in fact, there's no way out of it, right, you know, the law was given, we all know that the law was given to show that we are sinners. You know, one of the misconceptions is, you know, we think that by keeping the law, you know, somehow, we can get out of what Adam did to us, but it's impossible. So, I think that's one of the misconceptions that, somehow based on our righteousness, based on our works, you know, we can get out of what Adam did, but that's not possible. And then the Lord Jesus came, right, the cross came into the picture and then Lord Jesus, through the cross and through the shedding of the blood He redeemed us from what Adam did and the only way out of what Adam did to us is through the cross. And as we know, like, you know, once we receive the cross of our Lord, Jesus Christ, right, once we have believed in the Lord, Jesus Christ, you know, we come from death unto life. And then on this side of life, you know, there's no more, reaping what we sow in other words, we sin on the other side of cross. But the believers, right, you know, we will never go back to dying again because once, and for all our Lord, Jesus Christ redeemed us from death and the curse and then He brought us from death into life and now we are in the land of life because all our sins are forgiven. Even in this fleshy sin, there is no sowing of death again, because now the only thing we have is life and the only thing we have is grace. Mark 00:10:57 I wanna read one of Ajai's favorite scriptures. Are you familiar with the book of Romans, Ajai? <laugh>, Romans 5:12 says speaking right to what you just said, Ajai, “therefore just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin. And in this way, death came to all people because all have sinned”. Now jumping on one more verse, it says, “but the gift is not like the sin or trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to many!” What an awesome scripture, the gift, what we have in Christ, just, just so far above what the original trespass could do to us in negative things. The good things we have in Christ, just as Paul put it in 2nd Corinthians 3, he said, “what was glorious has no glory now compared with the surpassing glory” What Christ has done for us is so awesome and gracious and loving that what we reap is His goodness, all the the blessings he's bought us by His obedience, even obedience to the point of death on a cross on our behalf. Thinking with that mentality of reaping what you sow makes it all about what you do or don't do instead of about what Christ did for us. And that's the key with the reaping and sowing. And another big misconception that really opened my eyes when I came to the knowledge of the truth was when you're reading the Bible, the complete Old Testament, most people lived under the old covenant law. Okay. And some people know that, but what most people don't realize is the new covenant did not start until the cross and the resurrection, so as Christ walked through His life, teaching to the crowds at the time, He was still under the old covenant law. In fact, in fact, scripture says that He perfectly fulfilled the righteous requirement of the old covenant law on our behalf, cuz He mentioned reap what you sow but while he was walking through his life, he was upholding every part of the law. He said, I'm not even gonna let the least little pen stroke of the law pass away, but He fulfilled it and that's, that's the key to know. Cuz that can con that, you know, when you read some of the things, Jesus said he was elevating that law so that people could see, there's no way you can keep this correctly and in not keeping the law, you're going to reap what you sow if you're under the law. [Yeah.] What do you think about that, Ajai? Ajai 00:13:59 Yeah. So I just wanted to clarify one thing, right? So Mark, like you said, the whole human history is the dividing line is, cross, right? You know, it, it is like we have the cross and before the cross and after the cross are, you can even think of, you know, humanity without Christ and with Christ, you know, just as there is this dividing line of the cross, even in a person's life, there's a dividing life, right, you know, we have these unbelievers and believers in Jesus Christ. I think it's important to differentiate that right, in our own life, right, you know, (a) certain point of time we come to faith in Jesus Christ. That's when you know, we become, go from darkness to light, right, you know, we become believers from unbelievers, you know, that's when you know the things change for us. So similarly in the world also like there are two things happening, right, there is unbelievers and there are believers. So for unbelievers in the unbelieving world, you know, what you sow is what you reap right. They think, you know, in the unbelieving world, if you sow and if you do good things, you will get good. And if you do bad things, right, you know, you will get bad, but the reality is for unbeliever, no matter what you sow, you will only reap death. That's the only consequence, because nobody can fulfill the law, nobody can do good. Roman says “there's none righteous, no, not one” right, so, if you divide this up into unbelieving, unbelievers and believers for an unbeliever, no matter what you sow you are still reaping death. But once somebody comes to faith in Lord Jesus Christ then comes over to the other side and you become a believer and now you have the life of God and now you have the righteousness, you are the righteousness of God, now, no matter what you sow, you are reaping life. So, I wanted to differentiate that, right, you don't just apply this to unbelievers and believers equally. And the dividing line again is a cross, right. When you believe in the finished work of Lord, Jesus Christ you go over from death unto life and you go from being unbeliever to being a believer and for the believers, right, you know, this principle is, if you say right, it's, it's never, what you sow is what you reap for unbelievers, no matter what you sow your reaping death, and for believers, no matter what you sow, you're reaping life. Mark 00:16:13 Oh, that's good. That's good. Tim 00:16:15 Amen. Mark 00:16:16 Good insight there, Ajai. That, that's why it's called the gospel, the good news. That is such good news. You know, we cross from darkness to light. We cross from death to life, which is what you just pointed out there. So, reaping what your sowing is no longer, no longer, really true for the believer or the believer. It's just, you're going, if one is going to end in reaping death and the other in life. [Yep.] Tim 00:16:45 Now that's again, I'm gonna add that spiritually, but in the world, Mark, if I never ever, you know, if I, if I constantly lied to you, how long would it be before our relationship was broken? It's different with God Mark 00:16:57 Depends how good you were at it. Tim 00:16:59 <laugh> <laugh> Ajai 00:17:01 Yeah. I think that is so true, right, I think we had to, you both already pointed it out. I think it's, again, worth calling it out. Right. So, we, we are talking about our relationship with God. [Yes.] And our eternal state, but between human beings, right, it's what you sow is always, you know, kind of what you reap. If you're good to your neighbor, you know, you will get back good. But if you're not good to neighbor, right, so, there is a, quite a chance like, unless they are very, very patient believers <laugh> you might actually get more than what you sow, right? Yeah. If you slap him, you might get three back. So <laugh> so it's, important to realize that Mark 00:17:41 One, one important thing to add is that coming to Christ, that's not what it leads to. It doesn't lead to me, slap slapping, Ajai, it leads to me loving Ajai and wanting his best. That's what comes out of the gospel. And it's important to see, just to tell people, as you know, the critics always say, oh, when, when you're no longer under reap what you sow, that's gonna lead to you doing whatever you want [Yeah.] because, hey, there's no consequences, but that's not what it leads to because when you really contemplate and understand the kinda love that is, it changes you and transforms you. Ajai 00:18:21 Yeah. I wanted to quickly address that, you know, just to remove that misconception, right, so they are thinking under the law before people are saved, you know, somehow they are reaping good out of their actions, but we just talked about it, right, no matter what they do, they're sowing death. Why would you ever root for that kind of, you know, being under the law, right? So, like Mark, like you always say, right, the only hope of, you know, not sinning is grace. If you're under the law, if you're not born again, you always sow death, so you always reap death, so there's no hope there. So, you can fight all day long and you can all, all day long, you know, (argue) against grace, but the problem is apart from grace you have no hope. Tim 00:19:10 I think you said in an earlier podcast, Ajai, you know, our self-righteousness is like dirty rags and then you went, well, you know, really, if you look at it, our self-righteousness is like dirty diapers. <laugh> It's we don't have it and we can't have it and we, you know, so we, we must have the righteousness of Christ. Mark 00:19:29 Cause even when we occasionally do something good of our own volition, how often are our motives pure? You know, some I'm not saying never, but Tim 00:19:39 Agreed. Mark 00:19:41 So what I want, that misconception about what comes out of living under the law and what comes out of living under grace is a very serious misunderstanding because the apostle Paul even said that trying to live by the law, a set of rules, do this, don't do that, your own performance and behavior modification, it says that the law actually arouses sin in us. When you're trying to live by this, oh, limiting you're in a cage, basically it's bondage Paul calls calls it that doesn't have a good outcome. But grace, on the other hand, just how the, how the law arouses sin, grace arouses love in us. And so it's funny that that's, they have it, people that are trying to mix the law or completely live by set of rules. Once again, works we'll call it, they've got it 180 degrees backwards. They think trying really hard to, to tow the line and to fly right and pull your own bootstraps up is gonna lead to a good life and they're afraid that trusting and relying on the love and grace of God in Christ is gonna lead us to go off the deep end and just sin, sin, sin, because it's been paid for, but that's not what that leads to. So 180 degrees out of phase, which is really what the law is compared to the gospel, it's the opposite. Tim 00:21:12 Amen. I like that. But that kinda leads us to our second topic, which is the verse that everyone likes to quote that actually isn't a Bible verse and that is “God helps those who help themselves”. So, you're telling me that I can't do anything to make myself better in God's eyes that I can't do anything to improve myself, but I have to rely totally on God to do all those things and that's very hard, especially having grown up with “God helps those who help themselves”. What do you, what do you have to say about that? Ajai 00:21:43 Yeah, I think it, again goes back to, the picture I have in my mind is when we go back to salvation, right, salvation, let's say, you know, there is somebody drowning in a lake or a sea and you are a great swimmer and you could save him, right, you're standing on the shore and you're saying that, you know, “Hey, I'm going to save you, but you know, you need to help yourself a little bit first, you know, learn to swim a little bit and then I'll help you”. How does that work? So, I think that is how it is like telling people, you know, God helps those who helps themselves. Mark 00:22:17 I'll say this, first of all, God helps everybody. Just a blanket statement. Scripture says, God sends good things even into evil people's lives, even into people that don't believe He exists. He sends rains on their field to yield a harvest and a crop. God helps everybody, first of all. Bible says that God has grace and love for us before we come to him. It's because of that, grace of love that He sent Christ for us. So, God helps everybody, first of all, not just those who help themselves. Tim 00:22:51 That sounds a lot like the, I believe these actually are verses the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Mark 00:22:57 Right? Exactly. Secondly is that once we come to Christ, our sins are removed. The righteousness of God is imputed to us and the riches of a glorious inheritance, all the blessings of every promise God ever made in scripture are now ours. Because His favor rests on us the help goes way up. We have more of God's help. And grace, it's a higher degree of it now because of Christ. So, first of all, you could say God helps everybody. You could say God helps more, those who have turned and rely on Christ. God helps those who rely on Christ completely and, and I think you'll find out in most cases, when people say, God helps those who help themselves, it's one person who's saying that, trying to get the other person to do something. You know, you need to do this because God helps those who help themself, you know? [Yeah.] Or because they don't wanna do something for them that they've asked, so it can be a manipulation. [Yeah.] Ajai 00:24:02 Yeah. One other example, you know, that comes to my mind before actually going to the scriptures is let's say, you know, you need a heart surgery, right, then you're lying down on the surgical table, I'm using these extreme examples because that's what it is, right. our salvation is extreme. So you're lying on the operation table and you have a heart attack the third time and the heart surgery needs to be performed and the doctor comes, the chief surgeon comes and is like, yeah, I am going to help you, “only those who help themselves”, you know, “take the knife <laugh> and cut your skin a little bit and then I will start my surgery”. So it is that illogical to me, to be honest, I don't know where this came from, but again, I think the roots of all this is in the law, right, you know, the law-based mentality, trying to first do something, obey the law and then, you know, expect God to help you. You know, this whole mentality of works-based approach to God and you're trying to earn from God. Right? You know, the other way of saying is God will not give me anything until I pay Him first by doing something, right. So, this whole works-based, earning based mentality is what it is. But again, I think it's, it totally contradicts the grace, right, we have. Grace is if it is by grace, it cannot be by works otherwise grace is no longer grace and if it is by works, it cannot be by grace otherwise work is no longer work. Tim 00:25:29 I think a lot of this whole God helps those who helps themselves comes from people who think they're doing something to add to their self-righteousness in an effort to earn more from God, which we've said how many times we can't do. Ajai 00:25:47 Yeah. I think the only way to help ourselves is to say that, “God, I cannot help myself help me”. Mark 00:25:55 Apostle Paul said, “when I am weak, then I am strong because God's strength is made perfect in my weakness” That that's a very worldly view when you think about the words, you know, God helps those who help themselves, it's a self-starter, pull up your own bootstraps, I'm gonna do it mentality, kind of an overriding value. The world has that, avoid weakness at all costs. You've gotta be a winner, go out there and work harder you and if you're gonna get any help from God, it's only if you work hard first <laugh>. Ajai 00:26:31 Yeah. And it also appeals (to) the flesh, right. You know, our flesh always wants to do something and get credit, but we know that right now by the works of the flesh, you know, the mind of the flesh is emnity against God. So, flesh wants to do stuff, wants to get credit, but the problem is the flesh is not good enough. So for those, you know, who are living by the flesh, right, not depending upon God, completely, but they want to live depending on their own strength, thereby get some credit and glory, right, [Mm-hmm] <affirmative> that kind of mentality also, you know, this kind of saying appeals to that kind of, mentality, so to speak. Mark 00:27:13 Would you guys like to move on to number three now? Ajai 00:27:17 All right. Mark 00:27:18 Okay. Number three is one that many of us that have been in church have, have heard pastors use this it's almost a catch phrase, but it, it, it is that God is the God of a second chance. And when I first heard that, like I heard it on the radio, I listen to some ministry program, somebody preaching I'm like, wait a minute, second chance for what <laugh> like, what am I getting a second chance for? I can't lose my standing with God; I can't lose my salvation. It's all Christ and not me. I don't need a second chance. He's not God of the second chance, He's a, He's a God that when He does it for us, we don't ever need a second chance. Again, that was my whole point with this one is it's, it's a misunderstanding of what happens at salvation. The fact that we are made new creations, that we no longer are successful or failures by how well we do and keep the law. Tim 00:28:27 Let me, let me say this real fast. And that is that I believe whoever came up with this idea originally had the absolute best of intentions in their heart and their mind at the time, because what they were looking at, I believe, was that when we were trying to live under the law, without having accepted Christ and gotten the grace that we received since then, what they were saying was, you're a lost sinner, you can't dig yourself out, but God's giving you a, a second chance to become righteous and holy and come to heaven. But that's just a very legalistic way of looking at things that isn't quite true under grace as grace is presented now [Sure.] and that is, yeah, we were all those things, but that wasn't, it isn't a second chance, this was God's plan from the beginning. We, we talked about this in a previous podcast. There's no plan B. This was his plan all along, His Son was gonna come die for us. We were gonna accept it and become holy and righteous in His eyes because of that sacrifice, so there is no need for a second chance like you said, Mark, there now we got billion chances. We got as many chances as we need, cuz we're gonna keep falling short, but He's gonna keep forgiving us and, and He doesn't have to keep forgiving us (because) He forgive us once for everything and he is gonna keep seeing us as righteous. Mark 00:29:49 Well, I'll just take a, a little bit of umbrage with that because I wanted to use the word umbrage <laugh> and, and that is that no matter what number you put on the chances, whether it's one or a billion, we don't need any, cuz it's not about chances anymore. The, you know what I'm saying, you see, I know it's, it's being a little nitpicky, but we we're no longer under a system of chances of succeeding and failing, succeeding and failing and we need this many chances or you need that many. It's not chance anymore. Tim 00:30:26 Wait, are you, are you a barber, Mark, cuz you're splitting some hairs there pretty fine. But I agree with you completely. Don't take me wrong. I agree with you completely. Mark 00:30:36 Okay. Good. Ajai 00:30:37 See, I think, digging into this a little bit more, right? When you say somebody gives somebody a chance, right, that means right, you know, if you don't respond the second time or the third time or the hundredth time, there is a consequence, right? So, if you say, you know, God is giving me a chance, that means, you know, if I don't do whatever is expected of me now, there's a consequence and usually the consequences, you know, not having favor with God or losing a salvation or maybe, you know, suffering some loss in this life, right? So, it all again goes back to the law. So again, I think we sometimes use words without understanding the implication of it. [Sure.] By definition, you know, if you are giving somebody a chance, that means if you don't respond to that or if you don't take full advantage of the chance, there's a consequence, [right] but like we just discussed, right, you know, once we are saved, we are saved forever. You know, it doesn't mean that, you know, again, Lord doesn't want us to live the life of Christ. It doesn't mean that, you know, I can go and sin and live all kinds of life that God doesn't intend for us. That doesn't mean that, you know, there are not any consequences, right. For example, if I keep on going and getting involved in some destructive habits, right, there's a natural consequence to that. But with regards to God, right, you know, because I did something or because I did not do something, I'm not going to get anything else from God. Like we just discussed once somebody is saved, right, you're going from death until life and from darkness until light from the power of Satan unto the kingdom of God. Right? [Yeah.] So, there is no reversal of that. God's gifts and callings are, are irrevocable, right? So, God is not going to revoke my salvation, God is not going to if to the second chance as a third chance, I don't respond, God is not going to revoke my blessing. God is not going to stop loving me. God is not going to revoke, fellowship. So, I think the underlying message here, people who say that, you know, God is a God of second chances he is saying that, you know, if you don't avail your second chance, you know, you better be careful. You might lose your salvation, or you might lose your fellowship, or you might, you know, God might, send you some punishment into your life. You know, these are all the implications of this kind of belief, you know, that's why, you know, we are not trying to nitpick, or we are not going to, you know, call out on well-meaning people, but I think end of the day, what you believe is what your life will be. So, these are all the consequences, whether you realize or not of believing wrong. Mark 00:33:23 And I think also one of the implications for God of the second chance is about sin. Cause what do I need a second chance from it's some failure or mistake or something of a negative nature where we've talked about this many times, but now that all our sins have been forgiven and we've no, we're no longer under the law, but under grace, we do not transgress and sin against God anymore, because Paul tells us numerous times that there, where there's no law, there is no transgression where there's no law, God, God does not take our sin into account. So as a believer, I don't need another chance. He's already wiped that clean. Christ died once and for all not, you know, not up to a certain point and then if I screw up after then I need more chances. And I also believe even the unbelieving world is not on a chance system. I don't believe that some, some, some murderer on death row that cries out for the Lord Jesus, that God's gonna say, I'm sorry, you know, last week was your last chance because it's not about chances. He wants that none would perish and He's gonna wait and give them every possible opportunity to put their faith in Christ until they're no longer able to put faith in Christ because they're going to see Him and then it's too late to put faith in Him cuz you're, it won't be faith anymore, you're gonna know that He is God. So, I think what they're trying to do is bring out the generous nature of God. We'll give, we'll give them the benefit of the doubt that when they say God of the second chance, they're just trying to show, the, the grace graciousness of God and his generosity. But just like the apostle Paul said, said about the nation of Israel, he said, “you know, I can testify about them. They are very zealous for God”. All right? And there's a lot of, lot of pastors and people leading churches that have great attention and they're very serious about their relationship with God and very zealous to have their congregations living great lives and serving and giving money and doing all these good works. But as Paul said, their zeal is not based upon knowledge. So, even though it sounds like we're nitpicking the words we speak, like you said earlier, well, they denote what we believe and that affects our lives. That's why I think there is some value for us to point out, not just other people, but you know, throughout the week, my wife and my kids who all, you know, grew up under the gospel, I will almost every day say something inadvertently that is not in line with the truth of the message of God's grace, the gospel. And we need each other to call each other out, that's what iron sharpening iron means. It doesn't mean me calling out, Ajai for something I think he's doing wrong. It's me calling out Ajai when he's not thinking in line with the truth with the gospel. Tim 00:36:49 And given our upbringing, I have to say that certainly I have that problem. We all I've been taught, I've been taught in the works or mixed gospel church for so long that there are times that it's easy to drop back into the language, if not the complete thought pattern or even action patterns and so that's, you know, grace once again for one another, you know, if I say something wrong, they'll gently correct me and I'll, I'll laugh and try and and move forward again. It's but it's not, I never take umbridge. I never get upset. and, and, and likewise, any of the three of us are that way. Mark 00:37:25 Yeah. It's impossible to live in this world and not to be dealing with some of that, you know, because the whole world is on a works system so that's just in, it's ingrained in us and I ju I think to me, it's one of life's great adventures and noblest of all goals, not the word I'm looking for, endeavors, let's say and that is that I would think right, and speak right in line with the truth of what the gospel is because scripture tells us over and over again, that it's the renewing of our minds. It's repenting, which means to rethink. It's contemplating the Lord's glory. Those are the things that transform us, and our speaking, as Christ said, comes from the overflow of our hearts. Once we think correctly, we're gonna start to speak correctly and those do have consequences for us. And for those around us, Tim 00:38:28 Ajai, the Mickey mouse, hands on the wall are starting to count down. I feel like you haven't had a chance to say anything in a while. I wanna give you a chance to give a last opinion before we walk out for the evening. Ajai 00:38:40 Yeah. So, I think again, like Mark said, right, you know, giving the benefit of doubt. We don't want to misrepresent what people are saying, you know, when they say, God is a God of second chances. So, in some cases, you know, it is also used, right, someone, some believer falls, and they're in a state of self-condemnation and not able to get up, you know, you, you can get up and walk, right, you know, God is, there is, don't think that there's no hope. You know, don't think that, you know, you have hit a wall, you know, you can get up and walk because of what the Lord Jesus did for you and you can fall and get up several times, you know, like the Bible says, you know, a good man falls seven times, but you'll still get up. I think in that sense also, you know, people use this to say that, you know, you're not without hope when they say, you know, God is a God of second chances. They simply mean, you know, you're not without hope. I think even though they may they're, they might be using the incorrect word or terminology, but what they mean is, you know, don't think that there's no hope, you know, don't think that, you know, that is the end of everything so you can get up and walk again. So, I just wanted to say that, Tim 00:39:42 I appreciate that. And I will tell you guys, once again, I love these conversations. I get so much out of them, even if I have to be corrected, gently, gently, <laugh> Mark I'll let you know when I take Umbridge with you. Tim <laugh> so I think that's a good place for us to stop tonight. I want to thank everybody for listening. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, reach out to us at the information that's about to be provided in the outro. And for those of you who have been listening, we appreciate you. We request that you would subscribe and or share with your friends from the three of us. God bless have a great week and goodnight.