Episode 9 – Part 1 of “Things I Used to Know – Debunking Christian Myths”

Tim 00:00:24 Hi guys. Good to be back together again. The usual suspects here, I'm Tim with me are Mark and Ajai. Today. I want to talk about something that we've had a few discussions about over time. Growing up in the Christian Church. I learned a lot of things as a kid and even more, and as an adult that once I found grace turned out to be really different than the way I was taught them. And I'd always said that someday I'd, if I had this kind of creativity, I'd sit down and write a book called “Things I used to know”, and it would be about what I was taught when I was younger and didn't have the revel revelation of grace that I have today. The other way of looking at it is maybe calling it debunking Christian myths. I know, I think we have a couple that are really closely related. We want to talk to about or talk about today. Mark. Why don't you get us started? Mark 00:01:19 Sure. Thanks Tim. I wanna give a little bit of a backdrop how I got into this. I started a, a file name on my laptop, oh, probably 4, 5, 6 years ago that I just titled debunking Christian myths. And the way that I started starting this list was I've been a worship leader working in churches for over 30 years and I still have a lot of those people on Facebook, including pastors, and from time to time, I would share a scripture or share the gospel of grace, which is the only one true gospel, and all of a sudden I would get attacked by all these religionists, I'll call them, pastors that don't understand that the gospel is the message of God's undeserved, unearned, unmerited favor, and love for us. That's got nothing to do with any good things we did or any bad things, any righteous acts, it's all Jesus and the cross of Him showing and demonstrating His great love for us and the flack I got for preaching that true grace alone were saved by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone really was shocking to me, but I I've always been one who's loved to debate and so I looked forward to it and it was never contentious or mean spirited. I would just bring scripture and whatever they said, I would just say, well, what does this mean then? And during that time, they would, from time to time, weaponize for lack of a better word, certain scripture versus to try to win the argument. And after a while, I started knowing that a lot of these scripture verses if not taken out of context, they completely misinterpreted by 180 degrees as to what scripture was saying, so that became kind of a hobby of mine collecting those and so the reason we're doing this is not to criticize pastors or to attack anybody it's so that the one true gospel would be revealed by letting scripture show us what it is, but also discussing what it isn't and those things that people have taken, like, like, like Tim said, things I used to know that you used to think were right. But now you realize after you've had a revelation through the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, that what the true gospel is that you had 'em wrong and we're just gonna talk about that and so some of you, people that are listening that have been in the church for years, the minute I say some of these ding, ding, ding, ding, you're gonna say, oh, I've heard that one so many times being preached from. And one is that when pastors or preachers or any Christian for that matter does not preach against sin does not call society out on its sin does not when Christians don't get in the face of their children or their neighbors for what they're doing, that's wrong, they're removing the offense of the cross they call it. Tim 00:04:38 You just used a term, the offense off, an offense of the cross, Mark 00:04:44 The offense of the cross. Singular. I I'm gonna read the scripture in just two seconds here, so what they say, just to capsulize one more time, is that if you do not preach against people's sin, if you do not call society out on the things they're doing wrong, then you're removing the offense of the cross. And the cross is meant to offend is what their, their, premise is. So let me read you where they get this, this premise from, and it's the only place in the Bible that you can find it. It's in Galatians 5:11. Now this is the apostle Paul, and he says, “brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted?” And just, just to explain circumcision, that was one of the key parts of the Judaic law, it was an, what's the word, it's a deal breaker <laugh> that's like number one on the eighth day, all male children had to be circumcised. It was a symbol and a sign that they were God's people under His old covenant law. So, Paul's saying, I'm just gonna, just to keep it clear, I'm gonna, instead of saying circumcision, I'll say law. So Paul is saying, if I'm still preaching the law, why am I being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. So, Paul is saying that if I did preach the law, the cross would no longer offend. So, then that means the inverse is true. The opposite of law is the grace of the cross. So, so Paul is saying then, and the way he's worded things makes it a little hard to understand, but when you, when you dissect it, like we're doing, it becomes simple. If Paul were to preach the law, the cross would no longer offend certain people. Let me ask you guys this. If Paul were to add the law to the grace shown on the cross, who would it stop offending? Who does grace offend Tim 00:07:00 [the legalistic?] Mark 00:07:01 That's correct. Tim 00:07:02 The people that feel like they can become righteous through their own works, the self-righteous and the legalistic is what I'd say. Mark 00:07:09 That's that. I, I believe that that's what the scripture teaches. You okay with that, Ajai? [Yep.] Okay. So then if the cross would, if it would remove the offense of the cross, which is offending legalistic people, then we can surmise that grace is what the offense is. Okay? Because preaching the law, doesn't if you, if you preach the law, the offense is removed and the inverse of the law is grace. So, grace is the offense of the cross. It's an offense to who? To the legalistic, as, as, as Tim just said. So then, what they're saying though is they're saying that if you don't hammer unbelievers for their sin, you're removing the, the offense. No, no. The cross is not meant to be an offense to unbelievers, it's meant to be an offense to those who are trying to earn their own self-righteousness by keeping the law by keeping a list of do and don'ts by attending church enough, giving enough, serving enough, you can fill in the blank on that. So, the offense of the cross then isn't, as they contend sin, they think the cross is supposed to offend sinners. And what Paul is saying, no, he's saying not preaching the law is what offends the legalistics. Okay, so they're getting it 100 degrees backwards. And if we look at Jesus' life, who were the people He offended? Were they the poor sinner in the street? Or were they the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the teachers of the law, the scribes, the chief priests, all these people walking around with puffed up chests because they were keeping the law so well, Ajai 00:09:02 Mark, you know, to your point, right? In fact, this whole chapter, I mean, whole book of Galatians is, you know, Paul is so angry at this people who are corrupting the grace of God, right, with the law, like who are preaching the mixed gospel. In fact, in a Corinthians, we know that, you know, Corinthians are like, they were termed as Cardinal Christians doing all kinds of things, that, they're not supposed to do, but still when Paul writes a letter to them, right, he is actually not greeting them lovingly calling them saints and saying that, you know, Jesus, Lord Jesus will confirm you onto the end. And then he says, you are, blessed with all kinds of, spiritual utters and knowledge. But when it comes to Galatians, right, these seemingly self-righteous people, well behaved people, but Paul is very, very harsh. So everywhere, you know, we see his harshness like, Paul talking about, you know, in Galatians chapter 1 verse 6 says, “I marvel at you, that you are so soon removed from Him who called you into the grace of Christ onto another gospel”. So, Paul is talking about another gospel that these guys are, promoting that is not the grace of Christ. This whole chapter is about that. To your point, that Paul is referring to the entire law, not just the circumcision when, he is referring to circumcision, right, and in the context of offense of the cross, if you look at Galatians chapter 5 in verse chapter, chapter 5 and verse 2 “Behold; I, Paul, say unto you that if he be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing for, I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is debted to do the whole law Christ has become of non-effect unto you. Whosoever, whosoever of you are justified by the law, you have fallen from grace”. So here in the, in this context, right, he's using circumcision to represent the whole law. So, I think I absolutely agree with you, right, so (the) cross is an offense to the people who are self-righteous right, who want to be justified by their own works, who wants to bring their righteousness and their goodness, so that they can get a pat on the back and some credit to their salvation. But if you go and tell them, you know, cross is basically, you know, everything is finished. Lord Jesus accomplished everything that is required for our salvation and that's why He cried out it is finished. And what it means is for us, there's nothing for us to do except to receive what Christ did. And if you go and tell a self-righteous person who thinks, you know, that he or she is so good and they want to prove their goodness before God, and therefore earn their salvation and righteousness, if you tell them, you know, Hey, you don't need to do anything, if it is by grace, it cannot be by works otherwise grace is no more grace and they will get really offended. What do you mean? You know, how can I be equal with somebody that's sinner that has done so many bad things? You're saying that I'll be saved the same way that worse sinner that I look down upon will be saved. You know, you're kind of putting them on an equal footing with the worst sinner and that they don't like it. Tim 00:12:19 I think Jesus’ parable about the workers who were hired throughout the day, but each got the same amount of pay works its way into that very well. You know, he hired some people in the morning said, I'll, I'll give you of whatever that amount was and then later in the morning, he hired more at the same number and later in the day, but he, he, when they came at the end of the day and the worker showed up and said, “well, I, but I worked three hours more than he did how come I'm not getting more? He goes, don't despise what other people get, be grateful for what you got” more or less. I mean, I'm paraphrasing and rewording and boiling it down to its simplest terms, but, it, it shouldn't matter to me that if you got, you know, if I was actually a better person than the next guy, which I find hard to believe, knowing who I am some days, but, it shouldn't be an offense to me that you can be saved too, whether you're better than me or worse than me, the same way I am. But that's just not how humanity works humanity has this idea that they have to help themselves. God helps those who helps themselves, by the way, y'all, that's only in second opinions, not in any other Bible book. Uh <laugh> so, I mean, I, I, I see how that works together really well. There, Mark 00:13:31 What's very interesting to me. And my experience of being attacked on Facebook was that the people attacking me were proving this scripture. Because I was putting, I was posting on Facebook that the gospel is the finished work of the cross that we are saved by grace alone and it offended them <laugh> so they're like actually fulfilling what the scripture said all over again. [Yeah.] And, so moving on to point number two, which was another one of the arrows in their quiver, they would fire at me. They would say that by us, preaching grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, that I was diluting the gospel, I was watering it down. But the scripture you just read in, Galatians 5 there, Ajai, was a perfect picture of what Paul was saying about, you know, what you wanna add the law, even one thing you're responsible for the entire thing and once you've started adding (to) the law, then you've fallen away from grace and Christ is of no value to you. And here in, Galatians 1 at the beginning of this whole letter, which deals with people that were under attack by those that wanted to add the law to the pure gospel, he says this to them. He says, “I am astonished you are so quickly deserting the One who calls you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel, which is really no gospel at all”. He said, “evidently, some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ”. So once again, those who attack the pure gospel and say, by not having works involved, you're watering it down and diluting it. Paul is saying, here you add one thing (and) it's no longer the gospel, it's a perversion of the gospel. Who's the one that's really watering it down and diluting it. The perfect gospel of grace is perfect on its own, anything you add to it or take away from it only makes it less, only waters it down, only dilutes it. Ajai 00:15:50 Mark. What do you think is, the un-watered down gospel, according to them, Mark 00:15:56 According to them, it's a mixture of “do this, don't do that. Put your faith in Christ, but you also need to go to church on Sundays and if you have to miss church, then you dang well better feel guilty about it the rest of the day, right. You need to give enough, read your Bible enough, pray enough. You need to not have any patterns of sin in your life.” They're, they're, they're just like the legalists of that time who were then called. Now, there were two people that came against Paul. In that time, they were the strict out and out Jews, the people of Israel that were under the old covenant law. But then there were also Christians who had been Jews came to Christ but now believed that the gospel wasn't by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone, they believed in that, but they believed you also had to keep the Mosaic law, also had to do the right things, not do the wrong things. Ajai, I think it was you who on, our texting this week asked the question; “So, then the question is, are we free to sin as Christians?” And my answer to that was, well, yes, we'd have to be free to do that, cuz if we weren't free, it wouldn't be by grace, it would be by works. Now what, what people get wrong here is that that's what being under grace leads to, which we know is just the opposite. Scripture tells us in many places that the law, living by these rules, a set of rules actually arouses the sin in us, but being under grace actually transforms us into the image of Christ. So, it's just the opposite. Yes, we have to be free to sin otherwise it's not grace, it would be works. But that's not what the love of God brings in our lives, it brings transformation; it brings the Holy Spirit, the ministry of the Spirit, which is the new covenant. Ajai 00:18:02 So their fear is that, you know, if you preach pure grace without any works, somehow that will make us sin more, right, and they're trying to help people from sinning by trying to keep them under the law. Is that the logic there? Mark 00:18:20 I, I believe it absolutely is, but I also believe once again, 180 degrees wrong and scripture says it over and over again [Yeah.] that righteousness is by faith. From first to last, how much room in, in there is, is stuff for us to do when Jesus says it is finished and to drew His last breath that He mean it is finished, but now you need to do this, you need to do that. Do not watch this kind of movie. Don't play cards, don't dance. I mean, it's even gotten silly in some denominations as to what the laws and rules are. Ajai 00:19:01 Yeah. In fact, Mark, I think like you said, you know, it almost seems to be like, you know, when the scriptures are so plain, but when they are reading the scriptures, you know, they exactly interpreted exactly the opposite of what it says, right, for example, here in Galatians chapter 5, verse 4, it says “Christ has become of no effect to you. Whosoever are, you are justified by the law. You're fallen from grace”. So it's clearly saying that, you know, if you try to justify yourself by the law, Christ is basically of no use. They seem to be interpreting it as you know, Christ will be of use to me only if I try to justify myself by the law. So exactly the opposite. But if someone plainly re reads this, right, you know, oh my God, I want Christ to be of effect to me. If anything that makes Christ of not affect to me, right, I want to run away a hundred miles an hour from that. So, it is so clear here, right? If the law is the one trying to be justified by the law is the one that makes Christ of no effect to me. I absolutely don't want to be justified by the law. So somehow it feels like, like you said, you know, they are interpreting scriptures 180 degrees opposite of, you know what, it actually says, Tim 00:20:16 You know, some of those scriptures that you've just read, I think the justification I remember growing up was this is “This is how you get saved, but from that point forward, you've been changed, so you better straighten up and fly, right.” <laugh> It's like, well, either I've been changed or I have to do it. It, it didn't seem confusing at the time, but now it really does. Mark 00:20:38 It just astonishes me. And that's the word Paul used with the Galatians. “I'm astonished that you're so quickly deserting the One who called you to live in the, the grace of Christ”. It just it's astonishing that people can read scripture, but I did it for years and we all did it for years, we read these same scriptures, but the Bible calls us to rightly divide the word of God and the best definition I ever heard of that was from my one of my previous pastors. And he said, rightly dividing the word of God means filtering everything through you, that you read through the finished work of the cross. We need to rightly divide what is the old covenant and what is the new covenant? Because if you don't do that correctly, you can take things outta context. You can go and read some command in the Old Testament that's not meant for us. That was meant for people that were still trying to do it by the law. And it's also, I think, Ajai, we've talked about this, it's a misunderstanding of what the purpose of the law was in the first place as you just touched on. It wasn't to make us righteous, it was to show us that we can't make ourself righteous through it and that we are in desperate need of a Savior. And guess what? That was part of the original gospel and God provided perfectly for us, didn't He? Ajai 00:22:06 I just wanted to say, in fact, even the Old Testament, even though there are two covenants, right, the old covenant and the new covenant, but even under the old covenant, no one was justified based on the works of the law and that is a reason, you know, they had the sacrifices, right? All the, every year they had the day of atonement, they went and offered the sacrifices and then these sacrifices were actually pointing to our Lord Jesus Christ. So, it is important to understand that there is nobody ever on planet earth ever born that could be justified by the works of the law, except by our Lord Christ. Tim 00:22:41 Even the grace of our faith, like Abraham. It doesn't say he was righteous, (but) he was, he was counted righteous by his faith. Mark 00:22:48 Absolutely. All right. Moving on to, the third one, which these first three are very closely related, and this is one that I heard a number of pastors use against the gospel when I would bring the pure gospel, that's all dependent on Christ, not on ourselves. They would almost well, at least some of 'em boasted that “I preach the full counsel of God” and some translations say “the whole will of God” as though what they meant by that is they preach the entire Bible. They're gonna preach against sin. They're gonna preach the law to you. They're gonna also preach the gospel, but to do the full counsel, you have to preach everything from the Bible. Well, there's only one place again in scripture that they've built this, for lack of a better word, theology on, and it's here in Acts 20, starting at (verse) 25. Well, let me back up just a little at 24, the apostle Paul says this He says starting at 22 “and now compelled by the spirit, I am going to Jerusalem, not knowing what will happen to me there. I only know that in every city, the Holy Spirit warns me, that prisons and hardship are facing me. However, I consider my life worth nothing to me. My only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me the task of testifying to the good news of God's grace”. Now after hearing that guys, can I get you to agree that the most important thing Paul's sole focus out of life was to testify to the good news of God's grace? [I agree] even to the, even with the threat of prison and hardship and death, he counted his life, his very life worth nothing compared with that so, focus of testifying to the good news of God's grace. Okay. Now I'm gonna go on just a little bit further, to, verse 26 “Therefore I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of any of you for, I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the full counsel of God, (the whole will of God in some translations)”. Okay, so first Paul tells us he's got one sole focus in life that he even values above his own living or dying and that's testifying to the gospel of grace. Here he says he hasn't hesitated to proclaim the full counsel of God. If all he ever preached was Christ and the grace of Christ, then that is the whole will of God, the full counsel, cuz he just said, that's what he spent his life doing even at the peril of death. So, the full counsel of God is the gospel of God's grace found in the cross of Jesus Christ, which was Paul's only aim and in fact, the very task that the Lord Jesus had given him. Ajai 00:26:11 So what is their interpretation of the full counsel of God? Mark 00:26:15 The full counsel of God for them is preaching the entire Bible, preaching the law, preaching against sin, preaching tithing, which is part of the law. You know, they will preach the gospel that Christ is the Son of God that he died, that he rose again, but as Tim said earlier, but now you gotta pull your bootstraps up and start following the law. You need to give your 10%, you know, just fill in the blanks of whatever your rules wanna be. Every denomination has added their own. Ajai 00:26:47 Basically doing both the Old Testament and the New Testament, right? It kind of goes back to the mixed gospel again, like keeping the law plus believing in Christ is their “whole council of God”. [Yeah.] In fact, in, I was thinking, gospel is referred as mystery in, many places, right, it was not revealed. It was only revealed after the cross, after the day of Pentecost, right through the apostles, right? The council of God is kind of hidden in the whole Testament, even though there were types and shadows and there were men and women of faith, right, the grace was not fully revealed, and it was a mystery. In fact, cross was a mystery, right, no human being could have ever imagined that by the cross, by somebody dying on the cross, the whole humanity will be redeemed. So that is a total absolute mystery and it was hidden in the whole covenant. But in the new covenant, after the cross, after the resurrection and after the Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost, right? We have this revelation of the gospel and that completes the council of God, you know, because from the beginning, starting with the fall in, in the garden, right immediately when Adam fell, God killed a lamb and then clothed them. So that is a picture of me being clothed with the righteousness of our Lord Jesus Christ through his death. So starting from there, God is working out the plan of redemption, but it was not clear until actually the, after the cross. So when Paul says, you know, the whole council of God, right, he's actually saying that, you know, now the full council of God is revealed and grace, like you said, the gospel is the whole council of God, you know, it's not a mixed gospel putting law and adding law to the gospel is not the whole council, but the whole council of God is grace itself apart from the works of the law. Mark 00:28:44 And what we're saying is we're not telling people, “Hey, don't read the Old Testament, don't read the old covenant”. What we're saying is we don't preach the old covenant. We can preach Christ from the old covenant, which is the very thing most of the apostles did and most of the New Testament did. Paul would preach the old covenant prophecies about Christ and you know, most of the apostles did even they mentioned Apollos who was a great, debater that would prove that Jesus was the Messiah Messiah from the old covenant scriptures. So, we're not saying saw your Bible in half and throw the old covenant out. We're saying we're not preaching the old covenant. That covenant was a transitory government. Covenant. It's been gone for 2000 years now. It doesn't exist anymore. So why are people still trying to add it to this new covenant? Makes no sense. And just to encapsulate the something the two of you said, about how people are mixing the covenants and trying to add the law to the, to the gospel I recently heard a term called the gospel of empowerment. It means that people believe that it's impossible to earn your righteousness before you come to Christ. But once you put your faith in Him, now through Him, it is possible for you to fulfill the works of the law, which is basically what a lot of people are trying to do. But that, that old covenant doesn't even exist anymore, even if you wanted to do that, there isn't an old covenant, it was transitory as 2nd Corinthians 3 told us, and that transitioned out 2000 years ago to something much better. Ajai 00:30:35 You know, that kind of makes it, you know, the ultimate purpose of Christ dying is keeping the law, right, keeping the commandments, but that's a total misunderstanding of our purpose. You know, God created us for fellowship with Him and communion with Him and to be part of His family, we're not created to, just to serve the old covenant and keep rules and regulations, but you know, God created us to have fellowship with Him. So, they're making Christ as subservient to keeping the law, right? So, all Christ died if, for, is to help us to keep the law that makes the law greater than Christ. But what God wanted us to is to have fellowship with Him, just come back home. Tim 00:31:15 And I think that the preachers are preaching. I think what they're preaching is Christ died for our sins up to the point of our salvation and gave us eternal life but everything else is on us. Anything that comes past that point, I think that's really how they feel and what we're, what they're trying to preach when they say now, but now you've gotta double down and you are part of this now and to prove it, to show it, to earn it, you have to do these things that, that you know, are in the old covenant. You know, it's, it's not like they don't feel the cross or Christ’s sacrifice isn't a big and beautiful thing, it forgives us our sins up to that point and it gives us eternal life, but then they drop the ball. It's like, there's so much more. Mark 00:31:58 I, I would agree with you that Tim, that there are untold millions that live that way, but I think there's also another equally giant group that just thinks that the law and rules are part of the gospel. They're not even like consciously saying now I have to, you know, pull up my bootstraps and do this, they think that's part of the message. They just innately think that it's faith in Christ. And part of that is being religious. I'd I'd like to read to you guys just, just, this is very much, I love this chapt. I would just challenge encourage everybody is a better way of putting everybody out there to really read 2nd Corinthians chapter 3 from verse 7 through verse 18. It's just a, it's, Paul's beautiful comparison of the old covenant and the new covenant. And when you understand this, I think it's gonna clear any question up in your mind that you've ever had about what the gospel is. I'm just gonna read the second half of it here. Paul says this. He says, “we are not like Moses who had put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away, but their minds were made dull for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read, it has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away”. Now to me, that's just so beautiful and it's just showing you that the law, if our goal is to know God and to come to God and experience him, then we don't wanna veil between us. Well, the law is a veil. It doesn't bring us closer to God it separates. Mark 00:33:57 It separate. [Yep.] So, the point we're making here is that there are two covenants, the new and the old, and though many preachers, pastors, small group leaders, just your average lay Christians, they confuse them and they mix them. And let me read this here (2nd Corithians Chapter 3:7-11) “It says, speaking about the old covenant first. Now, if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if, what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that, which lasts!” So Paul's telling us that the old covenant was a ministry of death and condemnation, and that it was transitory. He's telling us that the new covenant, which is the gospel in Christ's blood, is a ministry of, of righteousness, it's a ministry of the Spirit and it's a ministry that lasts. Why would we wanna take that other minis, that other covenant, that compared to the glory of the new covenant has no covenant at all and has now transitioned away anyway, why would we try to take that and mix it in with this perfect gospel? Yep. It just doesn't make sense. It just separates us from God. Tim 00:35:44 Amen. Ajai 00:35:45 In layman terms, it seems like based on what you read Mark, the new covenant is way more superior to the old one. [Yeah] Mark 00:35:52 [Absolutely.] Ajai 00:35:53 Why do people even want to consider the inferior one when way more superior is right in front of them and it is free. The best news is it's free. We don't have to do anything simply by receiving all of the new covenant blessings are ours, right? Because the Lord Jesus purchased it for us. So the question is like, why do you want to do that? Mark 00:36:17 And I know that question is rhetorical because you know the, the answer to why you wouldn't do it, but I think we've discussed this, but just to quickly touch on it. It's because we are born into that system of earning, having to des, deserve everything it's a merit system from the time we're little kids “be a good boy, you'll get a cookie; work hard, you'll get good grades; treat that girl well, and she'll marry you; work really hard at work and you'll get promoted. Everything is merit. We don't see undeserved unearned, unearned merit, anywhere else in life, other than from God. So, I think it comes natural to us and then you add on top of that centuries of people who are just ignorant of the true gospel preaching a counterfeit. So that would be my two answers to that. Tim 00:37:14 Guys. This has been a great discussion. We have plenty more of these to discuss over the next few sessions. So, I look forward to that. This has been a great discussion. I thank you for your time today, guys. And I look forward to our next, get together.