Episode Transcript
Tim: Hello and welcome. Welcome back If this is not your first visit, this is the unveiling. Today is episode 73 and the title is God's Purpose for Us. Man, you guys do not take little bites sometimes. This is gotta be one of the oldest, most debated question in all of humanity in all of time, and that is, why are we here? Well, , if we Christians believe that God created us, then there has to be some sort of purpose in that. And I've heard a lot of preachings and teachings over the years of what that purpose might be. Everything from. We were created to worship to we were created to work ourselves out so that we could, earn our way into heaven. And I mean, so many different theories and things being taught not just in churches, but outside of churches and secular humanity and philosophy. And it's a debate that rages forever because I don't know that we can know without any shadow of a doubt, but I think scripturally, we can get some really good ideas of exactly why we're here now .As usual, it's AJ who brought up such a deep topic, so Mark and I are gonna sit back for half a minute and go. AJ, start us off.
Mark: This is actually small talk at AJ's house. Tim, on the dinner table.
Ajai: Well, I, I'm not going to let you guys sit back. We are going to have a good conversation. But just to kick it off I'm thinking, , if you look at any of the philosophical conversations, all these debates with different religious views and leaders in different religions, one of the core topics always comes down to why are we here, right? Because everything comes from there. And most people, in fact spend all their life in such a purpose and meaning for this life, and they get depressed. And many people feel, , there is no meaning, nothingness. And in fact, many of them, , end up ending their lives also in some cases because they don't know why we are created here. And even within Christianity, they say many things, you know, God created us to do great things and glorify God. And they say, , we are created for worship in our sole purposes, worship. And most of the time, , they make , our purpose as something we do. , they equate our purpose as something we do and eventually we accomplish. But it might be nice for us to just to go back to the scriptures and understand why God created us. I'm going to read the scripture and then, , after that, , we can Talk about it. Ephesians, chapter one verses three to six. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, , who has blushed us with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ, just as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having Predestined us, to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself according to the good pleasure of his will. So here we see, ? Clearly he Predestined us.Us That means even before we were born, he Predestined us.Us. to the adoption of sons by Jesus Christ to himself according to the good pleasure of his will. So the purpose or God, why he created us is. Adoption of sons to be his children. Again, the key word is by Jesus Christ. Without Christ, without being in Christ, we cannot be his children. We can talk about it later, but the main purpose of God creating us is to be simply his children.
Tim: That's a good point. AJ and I, I bring everything back to my life. Why did I create children? Well, I have two kids that that my wife and I had, and then we adopted two more. So and I think of all of them exactly the same as my children. Why did I do that? Does did I do that? Because I wanted somebody to tell me how wonderful I am and to glorify me in some way? Of course not. . They, they were an expression that came out of my and my wife's love. So they were conceived and born in love. And what is their purpose? , their purpose is to have lives and to fulfill their lives. And, , I want to have a, a relationship with each and every one of them, and that's important to me. , and seems to be equally important to them, thank goodness. But I didn't create them for my purpose. I created them and I loved them, but I don't know that I had a very specific purpose in that. So this is slightly different, you know? And of course this is spiritual and, and on a, , godly level versus my poor humanity. But, we don't create people for things, you know. Sorry, mark. Go ahead. Finally, it's time for you.
Mark: Well, I like your analogy there, Tim, with kids, cuz so many times God does show us about himself and . About us through that. Metaphor with that illustration and , you're right, we don't have kids so they can tell us how great we are all day. We definitely don't have kids because we need help cleaning up the house. Because if you,
Tim: well, well, that didn't hurt.
Mark: Yeah. But if you do the math, how much they mess it and how much they clean it up, we're still behind. Okay. So, and, and we don't have kids to love us, although that's a wonderful thing and what warms us more than our kids loving us or each other, but we had kids to love them. Because we wanted that closeness. There is a, the bond of father and mother and child is one of the most profound we have on the planet. And it's just a shadow. It's just the outer fringe of our relationship with Jesus and with the Father and the spirit in us. So I think that's a great illustration you used,
Tim. And another thing I just wanna add is that this question, Is very important one, not just because we all wanna know our purpose because it gives meaning to our life, but it definitely dictates and informs the way we read and interpret scripture. If you think your purpose is to do, do, do and also conversely to don't, don't, don't do that or that or that. It's gonna change everything you read cuz you're gonna see everything through the law. So that's why, and I cannot agree more with the both of you, that that scripture clearly teaches. God created us to be his children. , when the disciples the apostles asked Christ how to pray, he said, our Father who art in heaven, it was the first thing he told them. That's what we're for. It's for him to be our father and us to be his children, and we've had many podcasts on this. The book of Galatians talks about it. I wanna read you one quick scripture here, Romans eight 15. The spirit you receive does not make you slaves so that you live in fear again, rather the spirit you received. Brought about your adoption to sonship and by him we cry. Abba Daddy, father, the spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Now. If we are God's children, then we are heirs, heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ. He just says it so powerfully there of what our relationship to God is.
Tim: Aj, before we get too deep into the purpose, I want to see if maybe we should define. We are creations. God created human beings. We are not equals, we're not gods. We are not angels with no free will. We're not, you know, there are so many things that we aren't. We have, we're triune like God, we have mind, body, spirit and we have free will and we were created, you know, initially in the garden. I think just for God's pleasure. And God hung out with Adam and Eve in the garden. That was the perfect, the, the only time, a perfect relationship between human beings and God until the sacrifice of Jesus Christ gave us the opportunity to get back into that relationship. So I just wanted to throw that in out there as kind of a definition of who we are in, in the giant scheme of things before we talk about. So why are we here?
Ajai: Yeah, that is a good point, Tim. Yeah. We are created beings. We share the life of God. But that doesn't make us gods. I want to track back a little bit to what you said, , why do we have children? I was going to say the same exact thing. I'm glad you know I didn't steal your thunder. I was simply going to say, you know, why do we have kids? That's why God also had us children. So we have kids to do two things right? In Efficiency. In the same verse that I read before in a different translation, it says, in love he predestined us unto adoption as sons. So because out of our law, we have children, . , we want to share our love with them. So not only that, we also have children to extend our life. So we, our life is propagated when we have children. Similarly, Tim, like you said, you know, we don't become gods, but. God said when he created Adam in the garden, he said, let us make man in our own image. So human being, he did not say about angels. It's not recorded in the Bible that, oh, let us make angels in our own image. And he didn't say about animals. Let us make animals in our own image so we share the attributes of God, the nature of God, the. Faculties of God, even though it's humans. And ultimately the purpose is, , we share the eternal life of God. So the purpose in creating Earth is God wants to share his life with us. And when we talk about life, there are two kinds of life, right? You know, one, when Adam was created, he was created out of the breath of God, and he became a living soul. He became a human being and he had a human life. But at the same time, God also said, you know, I planted the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Most of us don't talk about the tree of life. We only talk mostly about the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And in fact, many people think that there was only one tree in the garden, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But when you read the Bible, it says in the middle, God planted the tree of life and tree of knowledge of good and evil. And he said, don't eat up the tree of knowledge of good and evil. That means, , you can freely partake of the tree of life. And the tree of life represents our Lord Jesus Christ himself. So if they had eaten of the tree of life, they would have participated in this life of Christ that we have now after the redemption. Lord Jesus Christ says, I am the life. I am the resurrection life. , he that eats of me and either drinks of me shall not die. So there he's talking about sharing his eternal life with us, , not the human life. So when in resurrection, I think one of the pastors said, resurrection is not resuscitated. It's not like, , when we are resurrected, when we were born again. , it's not the same life coming back, but it's a different life, the life of Christ that we get. So he created us out of his love to share his life and to extend his life through us.
Mark: You know, Ajai, that was my next point. So you are a thunder stealer, but I'll, I'll just add to that second Corinthians chapter five. The Apostle Paul does this beautiful comparison of our earthly bodies and. The body that we're gonna be given as we step into eternity. And he says that we're sown here on earth in weakness. There we're gonna be sown in glory. Here we are. Corruptible. there incorruptible here. Perishable. there imperishable. And then he says this, that when that day comes, what is mortal will be swallowed up by life and then he says, now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God. Who has given us the spirit as a deposit guaranteeing what is to come. It's telling us here that the very purpose God created us was for life and immortality, incorruptibility glory. He's created us for all these things that are part of our identity as his children.
Tim: Wow. That is awesome, Mark. , great point. I'm sitting here tingling a little bit. I don't know why I've never seen it as clearly as you've just explained it. By the way, Ajai, you can never steal my thunder. My thunder is for you to have any time. You like. Carry on, sir
Ajai: . So to follow up with you, mark, Bible says, , he has given us life and Im immortality for what purpose. So that he can have fellowship with us, he can have a good time with us for his good company, like Tim mentioned, right? God created us for his pleasure. , I used to think, , for his pleasure is basically, , you do this, you do this. I'll tell you like a dictator, you do this and I dictate you what to do. It's not that, right? , doing things for God is not what he's talking about, but just like, , when we. Had our children when they were a baby and mark now you're a granddad, you have your grandchild. When you hold your grandchild in your hand, I don't think anything can compare to the pleasure you get when you just hold the baby in your hands
Tim: and he can do, he or she can do nothing for you at that point.
Ajai: Yeah. So that is a kind of pleasure God is talking about, , just to know that, when God looks at us, He feels like that. Like we hold the babies in our hands and how we feel like the joy on their faces, the light on their faces, the radiance, you know, that gives us joy. That is the kind of joy he gets. You know, when he looks at us, he's my child, he's my boy.
Mark: That's awesome. I'll tell you probably , one of the most profound days in my life was when they handed me my first child, my daughter Grace. The connection, the love, she, I didn't even know her, but from that, you know, that's only a shadow. Scripture tells us of how God feels about us, the value he has, and then even while we were sinners and his enemies, he sent Christ to go through all of that for us and give his life as a sacrifice. That's, that's not fathomable to a human being. And yet scripture tells us that we need to contemplate that because that's how God transforms us by his spirit. So I'm so glad we're talking about that now.
Tim: On the day of my daughter's birth, I held her and she reached out a little hand and crabbed my pinky and my world exploded. And from that moment on, of course, I've been wrapped around to hers ever since. So,
Mark: That's a good, good analogy.
Ajai: . Yeah. How we wish, , sometimes they never grew up,
Tim: right?
Ajai: But they Yeah. So I think, I just want to go back to , the scripture. God is faithful, who has called into fellowship with his son Jesus, Christ our Lord. You know, that is a reason behind our calling. Sometimes we think God has called us for ministry to preach the gospel, to do that, to do that. That is not God calling us. It is God sending us, you know, there's a difference. He senses us for ministry so that , we can bring more children home. That's a different story. But , the calling is to himself. He called us by the gospel so that we can have fellowship. Just a good time, like three of us are having right? Fellowship and friendship and communion, and we'll probably go into that in the next episode. But even, why do we marry right? We don't marry to make our wives, you know, be our slaves or do work for us. We..
Tim: that's never gonna work.
Mark: Some might make , an argument for the inverse to Ajai
Ajai: Inverse. I can't believe, but
Mark: just joking ladies. Just joking.
Ajai: Yeah, just joking. So we will get into that later. But I think again, the point we are making is fellowship. It's a beautiful word. In the Bible, I think. I'm not a Greek expert by any means, but I think the term is called koinonia That means a communion. It's a very close relationship and union. I mean, it's like when you have a very close friend. A close friend is really close, right? Even some, some friends are even closer than our spouses. There's nothing we don't share with them. , you take that and multiply by infinity. That's the kind of fellowship God is talking about having with us. That's why, , the Bible talks about having oneness with God and the whole prayer of Lord Jesus Christ in John 17 is about that we may be one with him. So we have this, again, I think we have not really experienced this on this side of heaven, but God's purpose is that. We are united with him, joined with him. We are one with him and there's nothing between us and his son.
Tim: An interesting point you raised at the beginning of that, Ajai is God's not up there. He didn't create us to do things for him. Will we do things for him? Sure. . Yeah, absolutely. But we're not minions, you know? Our purpose isn't. To accomplish things in Jesus's name, to bring him glory or whatever. I mean, what, 15, 20 years ago now Rick Warren wrote the Purpose-Driven Church and the Purpose-Driven Life, and it was about finding your purpose, what you were supposed to be doing for God. And at the time, I had not, I had not been exposed to Grace, and I devoured those with some intensity. And It's not about that, it's just not, it's literally about relationship. And that's why the Bible tells us that the, the true gospel confounds the wise, but is easily accepted by those who I don't wanna call them not wise. How do I finish that?
Ajai: So Tim, I think since you brought that up I know I read that book, but I'm not very deep on that one. So looks like you did devour that and what changed your mind that, you know, maybe that's not really what the purpose is all about.
Tim: Oh, it was literally coming to the realization of the message of Grace about 10, 12 years ago now. I was fully engaged with the idea that I was put on this earth for a purpose. In fact, I. Part of the reason I went to Russia is because I thought I had a calling, which I honestly believe I did. But now it was my purpose to go to win Souls to do this, to do that wasn't, wasn't to have communion with my father. It wasn't to, you know, rest in the grace and let the works and stuff come out of me through that. It was to go do for God. Yeah, while , I feel like I was in the permissive will of God in doing that because I, a lot of good things did come out of it by his grace, not mine, but I feel like I missed something and something could have been so much more, or, or better or different than it was. And you know, I'm a little sorry I missed that in the long run.
Mark: And to me it's like not an either or thing. It's a matter of. What comes first in priorities? We're called to be his children. We're not called to work, to be his children, to do things, to prove that we're his children. We're meant to rest in the presence of Christ through the Holy Spirit. That's our life, that's our purpose. To be loved by God, to know God to be given life. To be his children. And , like you said, aj, it doesn't mean we're not gonna ever do anything either for him because he sends us or calls us. In fact, I think we'll end up doing more by resting in him and understanding our purposes just to be his children.
Ajai: . Just like we are doing this podcast, right? This is not our purpose. It just byproduct of who we are and our, our love and passion. For the grace of our Lord Jesus Christed.
Tim: Absolutely. Amen.
Ajai: So there's one more scripture I want to quickly read.. Again, related to purpose. It's another clear scripture. You know, whatever we say, we do not say without scriptures because end of the day, the only thing that will help us is the truth and the conviction of the truth. Only comes from scriptures. We can listen to many sermons, but end of the day we come to conviction of the truth through a scripture that was preached in that sermon. So it's very important to go back to the scriptures. Otherwise, you know, we'll be all over the place. So Romans 8 28 to 30, and we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose. For whom he for knew. He also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son, that he might be the first born among many brethren, moreover, whom he predestined. He also called , whom he called. He also justified and whom he's justified. These he also glorified. So here everything is there, right? He's saying that he is working all things for good. For those. Who are called according to his purpose and what is his purpose? Then he talks about it for whom he forknew. He also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son. He wanted us to be like Jesus. Why? So that he might be the firstborn among many brother. So in God's family, I think simply put, I'm saying it in human terms. I'm not saying that we will become God's like Tim, you said before in God's family there were three people, father, son, and the Holy Spirit. Now what God is doing is he created us so that we can be like Jesus and he can be the first born and we can be many among his brothern, right? He might be the first born among many brethren. So the purpose is God wanted to have more children. He wanted Jesus to have more brothers and sisters. And for that reason, he created us, not only created us, but he also wanted us to conform the image of our Lord Jesus Christ. So unless we are conformed to somebody's image, unless we have the same nature, same way of thinking, same way of looking at things, same way of perceiving things, we cannot really have true fellowship. You know, I might love my dog. I mean, I love my dog, right? Even I, there's nothing I don't do for my dog. But still, I can't really have fellowship with the dog because we are at different levels. Similarly, , humans, , we cannot have fellowship with God until we are confirmed to the image of our Lord Jesus Christ. So he created Lord Jesus Christ. , , he created the first man Adam, with the ability to have communion and fellowship with God. But when Adam Sinn and fell, He lost the ability to have fellowship and communion and so Lord Christ, through the redemption, he brought us back to that original life. In fact, better than that. Now, God in us and this life of Christ has the ability to . Have communion with Father, son, and the Holy Spirit. So simply put , God is inviting us into his family, the family of the Trinity, how awesome it is, and to just have that fellowship. Communion and relationship and intimacy forever and ever.
Mark: You know, Ajay, , I have a little addendun for what you just said. One of the scriptures you read and that you spoke on was about being conformed to the image of Christ . Scripture also uses the term transformed into the image of Christ, and many believers believe that that's their purpose. But they think that they do it themselves. They sanctify themselves and through works and it, and if they're really spiritual, to work along with God in accomplishing their purpose of being transformed into Christ. And scripture tells us clearly that's not our purpose. That's God's purpose, is to transform us by his spirit. Second Corinthians, chapter three 18 tells us it's the spirit. Who transforms us. So even us working real hard to be like Jesus, that's not our purpose.
Tim: So con conforming is something that you can do as an act, and transforming is something that happens to you.
Mark: That's a great point there.< Yeah.> Oh, word smith. And if I could just take us in a little bit of a different direction, and I think we need to acknowledge that this metaphor or illustration of fatherhood and becoming children, although it's not really a metaphor, but we've extended in into one, is that not all fathers are good fathers here on earth, and we have to at least acknowledge some of our listeners. Can't relate to a father like this. But God is not that kind of father. He's the kind of father that only wants our best, that wants to be with us, spend time with, and, and I would say his purpose is us. For us, one of his purposes in being his children is to being dearly loved children who know him and are known by him. That kind of speaks to the quality of that union that you talked about, Ajai, that it's not just like an earthly union, it's a union of just, you know, Unfathomable love and closeness and knowledge. , the apostle Peter tells us in, in his second book, chapter three, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And if you ever do a study on all the prayers of . The Apostle Paul , for God's children. He prays here. He says, may the father give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation so that you may know him better. I just think that's a great point. And one final thing here. A lot of us have heard the story of when Jesus was talking to the crowds and he says, not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father, who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy in your name and in your name, drive out demons and in your name, perform many miracles. Then I will tell them plainly. I never knew you people read that and they see the one who does the will of my father. That's why it's so important to know what the will of the father is, which is just another word for what God's purpose is. His purpose is to make you a child, to know you and have you know him. If you look at that as I've got to do, Then you're in trouble because these people that prophesy in his name that performed miracles, that drove out demons didn't even do enough because it's not about that. His will is for you to know him and to be known by him.
Ajai: Yeah, that's a great point. Mark, if I can just quickly add, when we know that Will of God is to be his children through faith in Jesus Christ, that is a will and purpose of God. When we understand that , we , don't go into this mode. You know, for some it is always about, , doing God's will, doing God's will. You know, we are not about doing the works of God in Christ. You know, we are not against it. But that's not the will and purpose of God when we understand that the will and , purpose of God is to be simply as children and to rest in Christ and let his life flow in us. Then the works of Christ will automatically come, , as a fruit of the Holy Spirit.So we don't, we are not saying that, you know, works are not important. Our bearing fruit is not important, but God did not create us for works. He created us for fellowship.
Mark: And then the question is, whose works? Or you know, he, as you mentioned, he works through us. Ephesians two 10 says it so clearly for we are God's handwork created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. It's all him anyway. And that's why he made us children instead of workers.
Ajai: Yeah.
Tim: Well, you made an interesting point there, Mark, on the father analogy. Especially because I know people who've had good fathers. I've known people who've had bad fathers. I myself cannot complain mightily about my upbringing. My father loved me the best way he could. I was never abused. I was never hungry. I was never cold. I. Just didn't have the relationship with him that I always yearned for, and I got the ideas of what that relationship would look like. I'm about to date myself here by watching such shows as Leave it to Beaver and seeing these television dads who were always. Spot on. Perfect. Right? They, they always knew exactly what to say and how far to go and when to push and when to back, you know? I was like, well, I came, did, people were like that. And, you know, I was, I was an ungrateful, snotty little kid to be honest. But the, the thing about God as our father is, He's gonna be better than even the script writers for Word Cleaver or Cliff Huxtable or any of these other guys on TV that you see. Because he is perfection. He is love, and he is the relationship maker. He's the one who created us to be in relationship with him. Guys, we're winding down here and I'd like to give you a chance to summarize. I've just done my little bit for that. Mark, why don't you start us off.
Mark: Well, Alex, since we're on TV fathers for 500, I'll I'm gonna carry that tradition on. I am a huge Andy Griffith fan. I have been since I was a kid. And I just saw a great episode called Opie and the Bully and Opie was dealing with a bully who was threatening him and stealing his milk money, and his dad found out about it and wanted to help Opie, but didn't wanna take care of it for him because he wanted Opie to learn. So he tells him a story about how when he was a child, he had to deal with his own bully, and the next morning came when Opie was gonna head off to school. And now, because his dad, , encouraged him and told him about what he had experienced and gone through, he was gonna go deal with this bully. And that morning comes to his dad and he says, dad, You're sure you're sure you know that that's really gonna work. That that's, you know, and, and he said, yes it will. And Opie turned to leave and looked back at his dad, Andy, and just ran and jumped into his father's arms and his father hugged him and they held him. And that gave Opie everything he needed to then go out. And face whatever that day would bring. I just love that episode because it's, I just feel like that's our lives. We need to be in the embrace of our father before we go out and do anything. And you can watch that episode if you wanna get further, further meaning out of it. But it's just a, it always brings me to tears because of just that close relationship and. That being the starting point.
Ajai: That's awesome.
Tim: Ajai how about you? I, this, this was your topic and I'm not sure we covered nearly as much as available to us. So maybe summarize where we're at for now and we can pick up more next time.
Ajai: Yeah. I want to summarize it quickly in two points. The purpose of God and also how do we get into that purpose. In John 14:23 says, Jesus answered and said to him, if anyone loves me, he will keep my word and my father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Look at that father and the son coming to us and making our their home with us. And it's kind of interesting that he's not inviting us to go to his home. Like it's even more closer. They're eager to come to us and make their home with us where we are. It's amazing. , that is the kind of law God wants us. So, God, like I said, , God is inviting us humans into the Trinity, into the family of Trinity. It's like, , we are three people, but you know, we want more. We want more experience in the same love, same fellowship, and same communion that the father, son and the Holy Spirit experienced the trinity. That is a privilege God gave us. You know, like just pure, intimate fellowship, love, joy, peace, righteousness in close communion with God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So that is a purpose. And then quickly, I just want to, Tell our listeners, you know, if this is such a grand and beautiful purpose, how can that purpose become real To me, it's very simple. One John four 15, whosoever shall confess that Jesus is son of God. God dwells in him and he in God, you know, simply by believing Jesus, you know, believing that Jesus is who he said he's, he said, I'm the son of God. If you simply acknowledge that, God comes to dwell in you, and we dwell in him. And one John one 12 says, but as many has received him, to them, gave he the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. So believing on the name of Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus means savior. You simply acknowledge that you know, I need a savior. I need the cross. I need what Jesus came to s do for me. I need his death. I need his burial and his resurrection. And simply by saying that And confessing, who Jesus is, we become his children and then we become part of the family of God.
Tim: Thank you very much for that Ajai. guys I feel like I'm sitting on a cloud today. After going through all this, I'm, I'm uplifted quite a bit and I hope that everybody listening is as well. Well, that's gonna do us for this episode. We look forward to talking to you again the next time.
