Episode 75 - Free for All

[00:00:00] Tim: Welcome back or welcome if you've never been here before. Thought I'd change that , . this time, guys, I'm usually doing it the other way around. This is The Unveiling, and this is gonna be episode 75, and I'm gonna title it free for all reason being well, we've just had too many arguments about our next topic. Oh wait, that's not quite how it worked. We've just, we just didn't come up with a really good topic in time this week that we've all wanted to work with. So what we did say was, we've done this before. Let's just to get together and have a conversation like we used to do and let the spirit flow through whatever we're gonna bring up. So, mark, this was this was your idea and since Ajai had the last idea, got start the last couple episodes, I'm gonna let you kick this one off first. [00:00:47] Mark: That's the last time I give an idea, you know? But no, I'd love to start it. Yeah, I mean, we did do this a couple times at the beginning and you know, I kind of hearken it to, oh, I got that in early, didn't I, Tim? [00:01:00] Tim: You did. [00:01:01] Mark: The fact that we are believers, During the week, we're filling ourselves up with Jesus as much as we can, keeping our eyes on him. And I'll share with you a couple times, I've had the opportunity to guess preach in a church, and it was a scary thing for me, but the last time I did it, I did not come with an outline, with notes. I spent the week just preparing myself and spending time with God, filling myself up with him. And I went out there and just preached the gospel and it was one of the best experiences I've ever had. Just tried to sense where God was leading me through the spirit.And so we're gonna try that today. And we'll, we'll just pray Lord that you speak through us. And let's get started. Huh? [00:01:50] Tim: , I know that when Karen and I were working out in ministry and the mission fields and stuff, we'd often come back to the US and tour some churches and do teaching and and stuff like that.And we would always write a ton of notes. What did we want to go through? What did we think the Lord was bringing to us for that message? And we'd put this all together and I would say that. Probably three quarters of the time we'd get up, lay down our notes, open our mouths and never look at the notes again and never preach a single thing that we had been writing and studying all week. So, and, and those were some of the best messages cuz they didn't come from us, that came from the spirit through us. [00:02:28] Mark: Yeah. One of my favorite pastors, Garrett, he used to bring some notes, but he would just go off on tangents and then at the end of the message he'd start apologizing and I finally told him, you know what, dude? Your tangents are the thing that's the best preaching you ever do because your passion and the spirit of God is leading you down a direction. So I'm not saying we don't, we prepare very much on this podcast and spend a lot of time in the word, a lot of time discussing and debating during the week trying to, oh, what's the word? Like a crucible burning off everything. That's not true. We're trying to get to the truth together. And and that's very important too. But then sometimes it's just this, just good to be God's children and for the children to come together and talk about Jesus. So that's what we're gonna do today. It's what we do during the week anyway. , through various texting means and audio texting and stuff. So I just kind of put out a. Text to both of you. For this one, let's just talk a little about what God's been doing in our life, what he's been revealing to us, and before I share my first thing, I just wanna say how thankful I am for this group of three guys. Apart from any podcasting or anything else, were three guys that are seeking Jesus, that are longing to know him. Through his word and God uses the three of us. Sometimes he gives us a direct revelation of himself through scriptures. Other times he'll give me that revelation through something Tim says or through something Ajai says. So I would just really recommend everybody you find a couple friends and just go deep in scripture and just pray that God would give you as the apostle Paul. Prayed for in Ephesians one, the spirit of wisdom and revelation to know him better, because really , that's what the Christian life is about. That's what this podcast is about. We have a desire to know him better, and the more we see, the more we know the more we want. So it's just great to have a group like this. And to find a group that are seeking God and the one true gospel to have understanding, because the ramifications of that are life changing and will transform us into the image of Christ. [00:04:57] Tim: I might say that the reason we do the podcast is because we wanna spread the word that was being revealed to us all the time. It's that fact that we're, as a group, working through that revelation all the time, and that spills out of us. This is great and I love to spread the word, but , the foundation of the basis of that is the true quest for grace, the true understanding of the spirit and living in the spirit, what all that means. Hey, Ajai, you still with us? [00:05:26] Ajai: Yeah. Yeah. I am here. Yeah. It is a . Free for all. So it is, I think, free to be silent also. So I couldn't agree with you both, you know, having a fellowship, especially, you know, all of us having, being on the same page. . With regards to understanding that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone and Christ alone, and we also grow in Christian life by grace alone through faith alone and Christ alone. It's very hard to find. Unity on this matter because many a time we all are believers, but when it comes to unity of understanding many a time legalism creeps in, messes up everything. So I'm so thankful that we are in one accord when it comes to it is all by grace. [00:06:10] Mark: Yeah. Especially in a day, unfortunately. Now where it's hard to find a church that is preaching the pure gospel, it's great just to find it. And my vision for our website and for this ministry is some point be able to connect people up with other people that understand the one true gospel, the message of God's grace. And that way they could strengthen each other the way the three of us do and they could search together for Jesus and to. Know him even more and more. You know, I love when s scripture says that one day Jesus , is going to appear to be marveled at by his people. It also says that what is it? Oh boy. Maybe you guys can refresh me here. There's a scripture that says, for what we will be, Has not yet been revealed, but when we see Jesus, we'll be like him because we'll see him as he is. So it's awesome. , I'm only paraphrasing that I don't have it memorized. [00:07:11] Ajai: Yeah, I think it's in one John three, I think. [00:07:12] Mark: Okay. [00:07:13] Ajai: Mark. Yeah, [00:07:13] Mark: Because when you think about that, it's just like, if that's true, that by just by seeing him, that's gonna bring a transformation to make us like him. That just tells me logically in this life, the more we can see Jesus as he is. The more we're going to be like him. And that's what I want. [00:07:32] Tim: , so that verse was one, John three verse two. Dear friends, now we are children of God and what we will be has not yet been made known, but we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is. [00:07:53] Mark: That's such a powerful scripture. You, it's got so many ramifications to it. [00:07:59] Ajai: Yeah. You know I just notice that it says in a, we shall. We like him because we will see him as he is. So when we see Jesus as he is, then we will be like him. So the other flip side of it is, in order to see him as he is, we must be like him. So on this side of earth in First Corinthians chapter 13, it says, right now we see dimly. , we don't see clearly, we don't see everything. So on this side of earth, The transformation is still going on. So we are growing in the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, but when we actually die and you know, we get our new bodies when we are exactly like our Lord Jesus Christ, that's when we will see him as he is. And that's when we can fully understand our Lord Jesus Christ is love and and His glory. [00:08:52] Mark: Yeah, I think there's a little bit of a chicken in the egg thing going on to what you said, Ajai, because . , if you interpret it that we can't be like he is. How did you put that? [00:09:04] Ajai: I said when we see him, when we are like him, we'll fully see him. That's what it says. When he is revealed, we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is. [00:09:16] Mark: Right. So my my point is though, that. It's not a qualification or a condition that we have to first be like him to see him, because we can't do that. We don't have the power to do that. [00:09:31] Ajai: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:09:31] Mark: It's when we see him that we are transformed into him as his image to be like him. And then I would think that as we become more like him, our vision of him would get even clearer. Which would be like a synergistic kind. You know what I'm saying? [00:09:47] Ajai: Yeah, yeah, totally. In fact, I was referring after we die and we get our new bodies, so on this side of earth, as we see Jesus more and more, we are transformed into this image. I think that's what you're saying about chicken and egg, [00:10:02] Mark: right. [00:10:02] Ajai: The more we see, the more we reflect him here, Here I think it's talking about after we go to heaven, we get our new bodies. So we have new faculties. And this flesh drops, right? This whole adamic nature drops completely and we get new faculties and then we'll be able to see Jesus for who he really is. [00:10:22] Mark: Yeah, and I, I don't know that this is true because that's obviously a lot of mystery to that scripture, but something , I've always had a little bit of an inkling like that. It's the seeing him face to face that is going to. Transform us, that that's going to be the power that in the twinkling of an eye, we, we become the new man. We get, we become our heavenly bodies. From the power of just gazing face to face on his beauty and his glory and all that he is will change us. You know? Right now it can't, it doesn't really, it does change us physically, indirectly. Because of the peace we get in our relationship and because he intervenes many times in our bodies. But I think it's talking about being like him in, in our natures, in our, in the new man, in our spirit by seeing him here and then at some point when we actually physically do see him. We're completely changed in, in the twinkling of an eye and beside being in heaven. That could also mean at the second coming, because that's where that language of, in the twinkling of an eye. So just a thought. You don't have to believe that if you don't want just an opinion. it's plausible, I would say. Tim, you're smiling. [00:11:47] Tim: I am. Because you said just my thought. And I think to myself, you know, we, we do tend to try. To discern or to disseminate to our listeners when it's scripture we're saying, or an opinion we're saying because [00:12:02] Mark: right. [00:12:03] Tim: Our opinions are fallible. We believe that Jesus has given us a corner on the truth here about grace and forgiveness and all of those things, but that doesn't necessarily come back out of us perfectly, so, . , if we're quoting a scripture, take it, run with it. If it's something we say, ask us questions. If you got questions, we're, we're open to being examined just like anybody else, you know? . [00:12:27] Mark: One of the things I loved about the Apostle Paul is he was always brutally honest in his writing, and there are a number of times when he will say that this is not the spirit, this is me. He'll differentiate when he's writing directly under the influence of the spirit. It only happens two or three times, but he'll say not the spirit, but I Paul tell you. But then he'll say something like, but I am not without wisdom and in this matter, here's what I think is right. we try to do the same thing. As Tim mentioned, we're not infallible and we, as much as we study scripture and. Look deeply into it. We also have to be careful that we, like you just said, Tim, let people know when, this is my opinion. I don't yet have all the scripture and all the support I need, but I'm just putting it out there that there could be something here. You know? So cuz we don't have all the answers. Oh, well Ajai does, but Tim and I dont.. [00:13:28] Ajai: Yeah. Yeah. Mark. I think the main point here is it's saying when we see Jesus, we'll be like him. Right? So when that happens, it does not mention it. So the point I was making is when we are like him, when we, we are able to behold him and clearly understand him more clearly. Understand Now on this side of this, like we are talking, we don't have a full understanding. I think all we need to know is Jesus is our savior and he died for us and he rose again. . As long as we believe this, you know, progressively our revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ will grow until we see him face-to-face. [00:14:05] Mark: And the great thing on this side is, is that God wants to reveal himself to us. Scripture says that God gave us his spirit so that. We can understand everything he's freely given us. And before that, he says, what No eye has seen, what no has heard, what no human mind conceived. These are the things the spirit is revealing to us. And so that's just an exciting thing in this life to know that God's given us his spirit to understand and is desiring to reveal himself to us. So much so that he sent his son to die on a cross for us. [00:14:45] Ajai: Amen.. Yeah. While we are on this real quick I think in terms of, you know, understanding and believing and opinions and all that, I think there are three things here, right? One is the scripture itself, and second is the interpretation of the scripture, and the third is people's opinions. The scripture itself is perfect, but our understanding may vary, ? That's where we grow by the spirit. The third one is the opinion of humans. So when we hear interpretations and opinions, we take it with a grain of salt, but we believe that the scripture itself is perfect. So it is perfect, but we grow in the understanding of the scripture and our inter interpretation of the scripture. And I think when we believe, okay, this is clearly. The right understanding of the scripture, we become more confident. But Mark, like you said, you know, when it is opinion, we just simply say, Hey, it's my opinion and or this is how I understand the scripture, but it may not be the perfect understanding. [00:15:47] Mark: or we ask, we ask a question like what do you think about this? , could this be true? You know? [00:15:53] Tim: That's why we say cuz , we've all been through this looking for churches and you know, listening to pastors chew the meat and spit out the bones, in fact that's one of the things that in the past 75 episodes, the period of time that has gone by is we've been doing this so far. That one of the things that surprises me the most is. When I'm in a new church listening to a pastor, sometimes the verbal gymnastics or mental gymnastics and the message where they're trying to preach grace, but they can't get away from teaching the law. . Or works or things like that. It is amazing the mashups that they'll come up with. [00:16:30] Mark: . To try and make those fit together. [00:16:31] Tim: And, you know, it's, it's the round peg in the square. Oh. It just doesn't work. [00:16:36] Mark: Yeah, and sometimes when my wife and I visit new churches for the first time, sometimes we'll get a pastor. That starts out so good. He gets to the end of the first quarter, man, he's doing great. Go pastor. Go. Gets to halftime. He's still preaching. Pure gospel. It's the third quarter. Come on man, you can do it. We're just, I'm like literally rooting in my spirit for him. Three minutes left in the fourth quarter, one minute left on the clock. And he puts up a brick. sometimes I just feel like some pastors just feel a compulsion to add the law. Just that that somehow Oh, validates what he's saying. Or he's like playing to people's fears of grace, you know? And a fear of grace is a fear of Jesus. Jesus is grace. He is the gospel, and grace is not a license to sin. In fact, it's the only way to come out from under the dominion of sin. The Apostle Paul said, we are no longer , under the dominion of sin because we are no longer under law, but under grace. So it's just seems so backwards. To have that opposite fear. I mean, that's the only way you're ever gonna, and Ajai you just brought up a great scripture I love, and I've been thinking of, you can give us the address as soon as I say it, but it was in, when we were talking in our last, we was the last podcast we were using the father child analogy, and then we were using the bridegroom and bride. Husband and wife where it says that we died to the law so that we might be married to another he who, who died in and rose again. So that we might bear fruit to God. Do you have that one, Ajai? [00:18:30] Ajai: Yeah, I have it. Mark, it's Roman. Seven, four. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ. That you may be married to another, to him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to. God. [00:18:47] Mark: I think I've shared this before. I love Paul's sense of logic and he'll put things out like this that almost have a mathematical equation sound to him. Okay? We all wanna have good works, right? Well, and I think this is another one of the reasons pastors have a compulsion to add the law. They believe that that's what spurs us to do good works is being under the law. Well, this is saying just the opposite here. It's saying if we want good works, we need to be married to Christ, to the one who died for us and was raised again, to be married to Christ, we have to first die to the law. We can't be married to Christ if we're married to the law. That's adulterous, you know? And so it's just so mathematical. We died of the law, then we come and are united to Christ and then good works are gonna flow out of us through the spirit. So mathematical, so logical and yet so many get that backwards. They think that we, that we need to die to ourselves. Obey the law so that we can be married to Christ, or at least if they don't say that, so that we can have good works. That's backwards and it doesn't work. It's short circuits, everything. [00:20:05] Tim: I don't know which one of you it was, it had delved so well into the vine and the vine dressers and things like that. Ajai, I think it may have been you, but the fact of the matter is, That we, if we're the branch, we still don't produce fruit, that the entire tree produces fruit through us. Jesus God, the Holy Spirit in us is working that stuff out, not me. And it was, I thought, a very good illustration of this in that it's, this is what happens, that we might bear fruit, not so we can work to produce fruit. [00:20:46] Ajai: Yeah. One of the hardest things for us as human beings is to simply rest and not do anything. Mark, you know, when you were talking about some of the messages that start good and then in the end it is like something we have to do? I think it is on both sides. Not only the pastor, but the congregation is also looking for something to do. And I am reminded of in the corporate world, Tim, you can relate to that After any meeting in the end, there's a "Go Do's", right? Go do, go do these three things. So that's what we are looking action items. Yeah. Even in a message, right? Most people go there to get what to do, ? , they hear a sermon there's some kind of a motivational speech, and then, They tell you to go do these three things and next week you evaluate how well you did. But you know, that's total opposite. That's the worldly system. But what lot tells us is to simply rest in him. , like Tim said, what can a branch do? Branch can only rest in the vine and the life. And when the sap flows through the wine, it'll bear fruit. [00:22:00] Mark: Yeah. Stay connected to, to the branches. Christ said, remain in me. Yeah, just live. And that's another word for rest. Just remain. [00:22:09] Tim: So Mark, is an action item list better or worse than a weekly scorecard? [00:22:14] Mark: . Tim's alluding to a church I used to work at. I used to call 'em sin Score sheets. He was in a series, each week was a different sin sin dejour, I guess you'd call it. And he'd pass out sheets to everybody and you rated how well or how bad you did at that, at that sin. And then at the end, whoever did the best won a gift card to Starbucks. I just, I made that part up. But no, seriously, the focus was all on sin, which in my. Slightly less than humble opinion is idolatry. It's taking our eyes off of Christ and putting them on ourself. How well am I doing? Look how holy I am. Look how pious I am. Look how good I am at this. Let's not talk about that over there. I'm not good at, but the whole thing just pulls us from Christ, takes our eyes off. And when you really think about it, it's not trusting the cross to be enough. It's not trusting that the cross is sufficient or efficient, effective in our lives. I still have to do, and I better rate myself so that I make sure I'm doing well enough. [00:23:26] Tim: See, that's so defeating , I mean, you come in every week and you're right. Now you're gonna pull yourself up by your boots, straps, tighten your belt, shoulder to the wheel, nose to the grindstone, and you're gonna work really hard on this. But we know we can't keep the long. So we know we are bound to fail. So when we come back the next week and review that, or we go through ourself, you know, an inspection of how we, how we've done, we're not, we're never gonna make it. We can't. We know that that's what the law is for. Yeah. To show us we can't do it. And yet here we are measuring ourself up to it all the time. It's so just defeating. [00:24:06] Mark: Yeah, and it seems like from the pulpit in, you know, everywhere. Let's just say everywhere. I don't wanna keep beating up on pastors, but to bring us to salvation, they'll preach Christ and they'll say, you can't do it. You can't, cannot earn your own righteousness. You can't do it well enough. Your best works are filthy rags. You need to rely on Christ. All right. You came to Christ. Now get to work. Wait a minute. I, I couldn't do it well enough to save myself. Now I'm in all the sudden doing well enough. Even the Apostle Paul lamented over the fact that he was the chief of sinners. Oh, what a wretched man. I am. The very good I want to do. I don't do the bad. I don't wanna do, I end up doing who will deliver me from this body of death? But thanks be to God for the victory he gives us in our Lord Jesus Christ. That's the gospel. That's the gospel. We can't do it. And I wanted to add one final thought on behalf of pastors everywhere. That's not an easy job. And someone brought up the fact that it's not just the pastor, it's the congregation and that's it. There are many congregations where a pastor cannot preach the gospel of grace. If he did, he's gonna have a dozen people waiting at the side of the stage to forcefully give them their opinion. The next elder meeting, you know, they're under pressure. There's so much pressure. To stay away from grace, to stay away from the message of the gospel. And you know, we had a reformation over that. But you know, when Paul talks in scripture about a dog returning to his vomit, that's another thing that's been twisted to mean you stop sinning and then you go back and start sinning a dog returning to its vomit is returning to the law, returning to your flesh to try to. Earn your sanctification, earn greater blessing. And my opinion, the church needs another re reformation, another revolution, a grace revolution. As a pastor, we know, calls it. [00:26:17] Ajai: Amen. [00:26:18] Mark: And God willing, he's gonna hopefully plant a few seeds through this podcast. [00:26:23] Tim: Let's, let's pray that's true. [00:26:25] Ajai: Yeah. [00:26:26] Mark: He's used worse people than us. Not much worse though. But [00:26:30] Tim: \ Ajay, you have been strangely quiet tonight. I know you're soaking it all in, but, [00:26:35] Mark: I think he's got some hidden sin that it's, [00:26:37] Ajai: yeah. So yeah, mark and I was going to just I wanted to let you finish, but you know, in the church, like you talked about that scorecard and all that, the general thinking Or the worldly wisdom is that they think if you remind people of sins and put them to shame and they behave well, and in fact they actually attributed to the Holy Spirit, that Holy Spirit out there is to convince and convict us of our sins and then make us behave. But nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, I think they have actually twisted the ministry of the Holy Spirit. If you go to Hebrews chapter 10 and verse 15, it clearly says It's so beautiful. It says, but the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us for after he had said before, this is a covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I'll put my loss into their hearts and in their minds I will write them. Then he adds. Their sins and Lawless deeds I will remember no more. So here this is attributed not only to the witness of the Holy Spirit, it is also saying that the Holy Spirit himself is saying that their sins and lawless deeds. I will remember no more if the Holy Spirit is not remembering our sins. How can he convict us of our sins? So it's very, very important to be established in this, that God is not remembering my sins no more. Period. Only out of that assurance, out of that confidence, we will start bearing through. And when the woman who was caught in adultery was brought to Lord Jesus Christ, what did he say?. Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin . No more so. The go and sinning no more happens after we receive the gift of no condemnation, which is also the gift of righteousness, which is also understanding that God is not impeding us sin to us anymore. [00:28:41] Mark: Yeah, that's a great point, Ajai. I love that scripture and I love the other one as far as Christ removing our sins as far as from the east is from the West, so it makes no sense when we sit in church. And someone is telling us to think about the past week, all the sins, let's analyze ourself before we take communion. Or some churches actually have a time of confessional in the service. Let's really try to dredge up the sins we had the last week and bring those to God. So in other words, Christ has removed them as far as the east is from the West, and that's not a point that ever stops. Because there is no location as far our sins we're east. Our sins are going warp speed, the opposite direction. I guess we're supposed to throw a really long rope around them, pull 'em all the way back to us. What was going as far as the east is from the west, even though God has said to us, I will remember your sins no more. I want you to remember 'em. Focus on 'em, then tap me on the shoulder and remind me. It just makes no sense. If God doesn't remember our sins anymore and paid a great, great price for that to be the truth, why would we remind him of that? , it's so 180 degrees backwards, right? The 180 degrees factor. [00:30:11] Ajai: Yep. [00:30:12] Mark: It's tradition, it's become tradition. People don't even think about it. And if someone raises a question, whoa, alarm's going off. We got a heretic here. [00:30:23] Tim: You know, it's an interesting fact. I just found out I was today years old when I found out this one. How many times do you think the word convict appears in the Bible? In its entirety. And Ajai, I'll even say in King James. Well, new King James. [00:30:38] Ajai: I don't know, Tim. Two or .. [00:30:39] Mark: Once? [00:30:40] Tim: Seven times seven. Never once with one exception. The word sin doesn't appear in any sentence with the word convict at all. [00:30:49] Ajai: Oh, that's awesome. That's that's great. [00:30:51] Mark: Yeah. I didn't know that. It's awesome. [00:30:54] Tim: I didn't either. I just, I wanted to look it up as an interesting fact as we were talking and, and throw up my concordance, and I was shocked. [00:31:01] Mark: Yeah, unfortunately, you look all around. Go visit churches, watch on tv, listen to radio ministries. Wait till the next hurricane hits. The Christian Church has become, sin has become the focus of the Christian Church. What's the focus of the Christian Church? Look at the name. Christian Christ is the focus, but churches have made it about sin. The Christian sins and unbeliever sins, that's what they look at. That's what they scream out the doors and through podcasts and on tv. That's not the focus. And I, I've, I've said this quote many times, but Matthew Henry was a Bible commentary in the 17 hundreds, and he wrote a Bible commentary toward the end of his life that still. One of the top used commentaries by Christians in the world, and he said the old covenant prophet cried out to show people their sin. The new covenant prophet cries out to show people their savior. Now, that's 300 years ago. This man had that wisdom to know that, and that's why I think there has been a slow slide. From the Reformation when, which was, as Martin Luther said, this is nothing new. This is the oldest message there's been, there's ever been, it's a rediscovery of the one true gospel. What's the real gospel? And I'll just remind our listeners that the reason we call it the one true gospel isn't because we think we're the only ones who have it right, we get that from the Apostle Paul. In Galatians one where he said, said to the Galatians as they were starting to return to the law, he said, I'm astonished. You are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel, which is really no gospel at all. Some are trying to pervert this gospel, he said, so right there he is telling you any gospel other than living in the grace of Christ. Which was the gospel Paul preached is no gospel at all. Simple logic tells you that means that gospel living in the grace of Christ is the one true gospel. And many times the scripture tells us it's the message of God's grace. [00:33:27] Ajai: Amen. [00:33:28] Mark: And the apostle Paul said that of all the things in his life, They were all lost all garbage. All he cared about was finishing the task. The Lord Jesus Christ had given him the task of testifying to the message of God's grace. And Paul also said, woe unto me if I do not preach the gospel, which means the good news. And I, and I think I mentioned for years and years, I thought that just meant, wow, Paul really loves to preach because he's calling down a curse on himself. If he doesn't preach, that's not what he said. He's calling a curse down on himself if he doesn't preach the good news, the message of God's grace. So, you know, and especially when you put it in the context of him. He said his two things had did in his life. His constant battles were confirming the gospel and defending it. He was the great defender of the message of God's grace looking. It's in so many of his writings. I mean, Galatians obviously is the prime example, but he mentions it in Ephesians and Colossians and Philippians. You, you dogs, you mutilators of the flesh. He's talking about the judaizers who were trying to add the law back in. He brings it up so many times that our lives are meant to defend that pure gospel cuz the perversion of it does great damage not only to believers, but to the unbelieving world who think they know what the gospel is and it's nothing but a bunch of rules. [00:35:01] Ajai: Awesome. [00:35:02] Tim: Time has just flown by tonight. This has been great. Just a free discussion on what we, what we're doing here and what we're, what we're learning and finding out. But since time is what it is, we're gonna have to wrap this up. So, Anything you'd like to add before we close out today? Either one of you can start [00:35:24] Mark: Ajai. I started last week. Where don't you go this week? [00:35:26] Ajai: Yeah. Mark. You know I used to think the same when I read that words you quoted onto to me, if I do not preach the gospel, I used to think if I don't do the act of preaching, Then woe unto me. Right? Like you mentioned, it's like woe unto me if I don't preach the gospel of grace, the one true gospel. So , whoever is taking up to preach the gospel, it's so important to make sure and understand and know it's good for us to preach the gospel of grace. Otherwise, even in Galatians it says there's a double curse. Paul says, if I didn't preach the grace of God, right. He says two times, you know, let me be cursed. Me or angel or anyone else who preaches any other gospel. Let them be cursed. [00:36:12] Mark: Yep. [00:36:12] Ajai: So it's not a small matter to preach a gospel that is not the gospel and adding works and all kinds of things. So I think it's very important for us to understand that. There is a curse if you don't preach the true gospel. So we better preach the gospel of grace when it comes to preaching whoever has taken up upon themselves to preach the gospel. So again, I think it's one of my favorite verses. If it is by grace, it is no longer by works. Otherwise grace is no longer grace. So when we are preaching grace, we are not preaching back. So it is, that is the greatest news. That we are saved by grace without any of our doing, but simply by his grace we are saved and sanctified. That is a greatest news. [00:37:02] Mark: Well, I'm reminded of something Jesus said when he walked the earth as he confronted the Pharisees and Sadducees teaches the law scribes the religious establishment of that time. He said, you've given up, and I'm paraphrasing, you've given up the things of God. And are teaching mere traditions of men, mere rules of men. At that time, that was Christianity, speaking to legalism, speaking to the law, living by the law. Well, unfortunately, I just feel like the, that Christianity, that church has fallen into the same trap over time to what you see in church now. His rules, the rules of men and traditions of men being taught Now, that tradition now is different than back then, which was, you know, I don't wanna say pure rules because they love God and desired to please them. But we've gotten the new tradition is a mixture of the law, the old covenant and the new covenant. They're gonna give some , lip service to Jesus. But like, like as we talked about before, that message finishes the law coming in because that's the new tradition. People think that's what the gospel is, and that, that's what Paul called a curse down on. That's what he said. This is a perversion. He called a curse on himself if he didn't preach it. And he said, I don't care if an angel from heaven came down. Or even I myself preach any other gospel besides living in the grace of Christ. Let them be cursed. And the wording there is a lot heavier than be cursed. It's be damned. , he's strong on this. And you know what, there is a curse inherent in that because the law itself is a curse. So apart from someone trying to curse somebody else, just by teaching them the law, you're putting them under a curse because the law is a curse. Christ died to take that curse for us, curse it as anyone who's hung on a pole, it says hung on a tree. He became a curse for us. And so when we preach the law, we don't have to put a a audible verbal curse on them. We're putting them under the curse of the law and all comes out of that is condemnation. But it is for freedom that Christ set us free stand firm then, and do not be burned again by a yoke of slavery, which the Apostle Paul told us in five. One is the law, the works of the law, dead works of the law. He calls it, [00:39:49] Tim: you know, I say we've gotta do this again more or even more often because this has just been a great conversation. I'm, I'm still working out. Something I believe came up in one of the last two episodes, and that is cuz I'm, I'm constantly being re these little mini revelations as we go through all this and I'm, when we say that the word of God is alive, it's because it's so true. , you can know a verse inside out, upside down, backwards and forwards. I've memorized a lot of verses in my day, but I'll see something in a verse or phrase in the Bible or something and go. I never saw it in that light. And one of you guys said something last week about the marriage ceremony and talking about what God has brought together. Let no man put us under. But not only is that about marriage, man and woman here on earth, but it's about the relationship God brings together between us and the Holy Spirit. This is, this is where your life comes from. As a Christian, this is where your joy comes from. This is where, Anything that you do that is of, of good and is coming from and. , I've been kind of dealing with that verse in my head for the last week or two, just kind of trying to absorb that. It's, it's wonderful. This is constantly new. There's constantly new things for us to see, and I hope that everybody is getting something out of this and that you are seeing new things too. We hope that you'll continue to listen and be blessed, and if you're enjoying it, please remember. Tell your friends and family about us. Give us a like, or subscribe on one of the podcast apps. We really enjoy doing this and we hope you're being enlightened and lifted up. And that'll do us for this week, guys. So from Ajai, mark, and Tim, we'll talk to you again the next time.